Bug? - Copied item into another vault is not classified as same

vipson

In continuation of my previous post and hunt..
In order to share item, I copy (Ctrl + C), open another vault, and then paste into new/shared vault.
Item was created in original vault as generic account, I added custom fields to it. I could not change the classification type from "generic account".
I copied this item and pasted it into another vault..surprisingly it gets created as login with some fields that I did not create and changes the layout of what was created.

Information stored and the custom fields are there - same..

Original item was designed and created to be shown in browser plugin and now this one does..I understand that I can disable that behavior in newly created item..but it is not the same as copy/paste.

Sharing the item was not painful enough, now it changes the item classification and adds more fields to it.

Am I missing anything here?

vipson

Now if I sync this vault on to iOS all these generic accounts are showing up as logins over there vs. under accounts on main vault.

Should not it be consistent at least from this point of view?

vipson

Please see the attachment.

vipson

better version

vipson

Another issue on the same:
I created total 11 items and copy/pasted into another vault and wifi synced to iOS. At least two of them did not have contents in the shared vault but had the same values/fields on iOS.

The contents I am talking about are all password fields..how can it loose it?

Make a note that all the items are created using the same template that I have put here as an example.

MikeT

Hi @vipson,

I could not change the classification type from "generic account". I copied this item and pasted it into another vault..surprisingly it gets created as login with some fields that I did not create and changes the layout of what was created.

In the new opvault format that we’re going to switch to as the default for all 1Password 4 apps, there is no generic account category, and it is automatically converted to a Login item instead.

I assume the extra field you’re referring to is the password field? If yes, is it the same password as in the Password (key) field? If yes, we put the first password we find from the item in the main password field to make it easy for you to grab it right away. This is intentional as you can right-click on the item in 1Password Helper on Windows to copy its password. On iOS, you can swipe the item on the 1Password app to copy its password right away.

I’ll check to see if we can add support to share a generic account item between two older agilekeychain vaults. It is possible we may not be able to do this in order to maintain the consistency between all 1Password apps.

Now if I sync this vault on to iOS all these generic accounts are showing up as logins over there vs. under accounts on main vault.

In 1Password 4 for iOS, there is no generic account category, they’re converted to Logins automatically in the internal iOS database. However, as long as you don’t edit the item, it’ll remain as generic account items in Windows. As soon as you edit them, it’ll be synced back as Logins to your Windows database. So, this is absolutely normal.

This will get better as we switch all 1Password apps to use the new opvault format. If you create a new vault in 1Password for Windows and select the opvault format, you’ll see there is no generic account category there.

Another issue on the same: I created total 11 items and copy/pasted into another vault and wifi synced to iOS. At least two of them did not have contents in the shared vault but had the same values/fields on iOS.

You copied 11 items into a separate vault, which is then sync'ed to your primary vault on the iOS device. However, here's the part where I don't understand, it doesn't have contents in the shared vault but has the same values/fields on iOS. Can you explain more on what you mean by the contents, shared vault, and what value/field are you referring to on iOS?

RichardPayne

This will get better as we switch all 1Password apps to use the new opvault format. If you create a new vault in 1Password for Windows and select the opvault format, you’ll see there is no generic account category there.

You could make this all a whole lot simpler by removing the non-opVault supported categories from the GUIs immediately and automatically converting items to logins.

MikeT

Hi @RichardPayne,

In the latest beta, we've fixed the bug where the outdated categories were still included when you use the opvault file.

We're not going to change the interface for the agilekeychain files, it will only show the categories of agilekeychain. [Edited to be more clear]

RichardPayne

we have a lot of folks who use these without using 1Password 4 app elsewhere, so that is just not going to help.

I'm very sure what you mean, except third party software, but why would you what third party software does?

MikeT

Hi @RichardPayne,

I meant version 4 of 1Password, as in Mac, iOS, and Android apps who uses the opvault list. I updated the original statement to be more clear as in people who doesn't upgrade to 1Password 4 elsewhere nor use the opvault format.

RichardPayne

I would agree that changing 1Password for Windows v1 is probably not worth it at this stage. However, are you saying that on the Mac, if you are using an agilekeychain instead of an opvault then you will see the old Windows v1 categories? I thought current Mac version always worked with the opvault categories.

MikeT

Let's try this a different way, let me know if this is better because I know it is confusing:

1. 1Password 4 for Mac, iOS, and Android will only show the consistent opvault categories, it will never change regardless of which format you're using
2. 1Password 4 for Windows will be the exception to this. It will only show the opvault list if you're using the opvault files. It will not show it if you're using the agilekeychain format. We have no plans to change this at the moment and will be pushing forward to get everybody on opvault as fast as we can.
3. As 1Password 4 for Windows can be used anywhere that 1Password 1.x was on, many users can upgrade to 1Password 4 for Windows where they can't do so on their older mobile devices or even Macs. It'd help to keep the interface the same for their .agilekeychain files. As they upgrade over time, we'd like them to upgrade to the opvault format instead.

RichardPayne

@MikeT‌
So if I understood that correctly, you're keeping 1PfW4 as it is in order to present a consistent experience to people using the 1PfM3, but at the expense of the experience for people using 1PfM4 and 1PfW4.

Since the Mac version 4 was released a lot earlier than the Windows version 4 I would submitted that the number of uses in the second camp likely outnumbers the first camp.
Forgive me if I'm ignorant here, but under what circumstances would a mobile device not be able to run v4?

I know you don't like to say, but is there a rough idea of how long until 1PfA4 gets opvault support? Once that's in place I can switch to opvault and it becomes a non-issue, for me at least.

AlexHoffmann

Sorry Richard, even if we could say, we probably wouldn't until it's done. As you will know, many things can change between an announcement and the actual release of something.

But to answer your question: At the moment not all of our platforms use or can use .opvault as the database file format. That's why we are moving to the new format slowly. If we could, we'd get everybody onto the new format as quickly as possible, but especially among Windows users there are a lot of people who still need the old format to sync to their other devices.

RichardPayne

But to answer your question: At the moment not all of our platforms use or can use .opvault as the database file format. That's why we are moving to the new format slowly. If we could, we'd get everybody onto the new format as quickly as possible, but especially among Windows users there are a lot of people who still need the old format to sync to their other devices.

Forgive me if I've misremembered but isn't Android the only platform that does not support opvault?

AlexHoffmann

It's Android, 1Password 3 for Mac, 1Password for Windows.

RichardPayne

Right, but I was talking about the current latest platforms. All of the v4 software, except Android, uses opvault and Android v4 displays opvault categories even though it's syncing with agilekeychain. Why insist on retaining the old category structure for 1PfW4?

MikeT

Hi @RichardPayne,

Just to be clear on this, beside 1Password 4 for Windows, there is no other app that officially read or write the opvault format. The 1Password 4 apps beside Windows does use a consistent modernized list of categories that the opvault format will follow.

As to why we're not forcing the Windows app to adopt the modern categories for .agilekeychain, because that's what the Windows team wants to go with as it is more efficient in the code to avoid converting the items in addition to other reasons such as being consistent with the previous 1Password version. What we've decided is that instead of adding the complexity of maintaining the conversion among other code on top of agilekeychain that exists since 1Password 1.x for Windows, we're simply going to adopt the opvault format in a different look instead.

We had a lot of issues maintaining this on other platforms, so parts of that is why the Windows team made the decision to simplify it on Windows despite the pain points it is causing. The best thing we can do to improve this for everybody on all platform is to get the opvault adoption started now rather than postponing it.

I know you don't like to say, but is there a rough idea of how long until 1PfA4 gets opvault support?

We don't have any ETAs. We're still focused on adding support to write your own agilekeychain files in the Android app that's scheduled to be released within a few weeks. Opvault support is not on the top of the list for the Android platform since we haven't gotten multiple vault support in there either and we've gotten more requests for multiple vaults.

It sucks but we're doing multiple things at the same time to get the adoption of opvault to happen faster but I know it seems like it keeps getting pushed back. The team is working on expanding our resources to cover more platforms and getting the feature/platform parity in check quicker.

RichardPayne

Thanks @MikeT
Personally I'd like to see a consistent set of categories across the v4 line, however I understand your hesitation is the Mac translation code proved to be fragile.

And thanks for the info on your Android roadmap. Maybe I'm just nosey, but I like to know what's planned. ;)

MikeT

Hi @RichardPayne‌,

If you're using 1Password on the Android platform, you can sign up for our betas and get newsletter on the progress we're making but you don't have to test or do anything, you can grab the newsletter. You can also subscribe to our blog where we try to release details on our roadmap.

RichardPayne

Thanks @MikeT, but I'm already in the Android beta.

MikeT

Ah, so, you already know as much as I do on what's coming next. :P

RichardPayne

lol, nice to see that the Agile teams talk to each internally. :p

MikeT

:D We do majority of the times. It just happens that the public betas are where developers share the information with us and the beta team at the same time.

vipson

Sorry guys. I have been stuck in some family emergencies. I will go over all the posts in few days and get back to you if you are looking for more info/input.

vipson

I guess you already answered a bit one of my question in my today's post. I see your point of category getting changed (windows-generic vs iOS-login).

You mentioned to select openvault format while creating the vault - :). Until I read this post I did not know the difference. For consistent look and feel especially in cross-platform I think you guys should make openvault as default option when a user creates the vault.

I will try to create openvault format vault, explore more and post my results and whether it solved what I am trying to do.

vipson

I tested it quickly. In my latest current version I do see generic category but as soon as I save it it is saved it as login and any attempt to add new section crashes the attempt. I see your point.

So, if you don't allow users to have flexibility of creating own categories/generic category, how are you planning to allow us store the details of for example, iPhone apps like Tango, Viber, Pinterest, Yelp & on web world the details for facebook, gmail, yahoo, linkedIn etc..Basically 1Password should allow us to store associated details like security questions, phone numbers etc. we have provided to the site..

DBrown

The .opvault/.agilekeychain issue has been discussed pretty thoroughly, including in the other thread you mention above. I hope that clears it up.

As for storing details, have you looked into custom fields?

vipson

I think I need to move to openvault. Is there an easy way to covert 1agile format to openvault?

DBrown

As I understand it, you would export your entire vault to a 1PIF file, create a new vault (selecting the .opvault format), and import the 1PIF file.

Once you were sure everything was there and working correctly, you could delete the old .agilekeychain format vault, if you wanted.

I'm curious, though, what would be your motivation for the change.

vipson

I wanted to be consistent and based on the discussions here I realized that I have agile format on windows and iPhone is not..So what I was thinking is to create openvault format on windows that way I don't get confused, well actually it more like my kids - I don't want them to get confused.

Though, after going over these posts, I was able to come up with somewhat method to create my items e.g. avoid certain items and try to fit every item as login, to store phone security details use server item etc.