Common Mac and Windows interface?
I use a Mac at home and a Windows machine at work plus an iPhone. I really appreciate that 1Password is available across all my platforms. I think it is one of the best pieces of software I have ever purchased.
HOWEVER, when I compare the Windows interface vs the Mac interface, there is no comparison. The Windows interface is clunky, unintuitive and not streamlined in comparison to the Mac. And I am not saying this because I am a Mac bigot. There are some cases where I prefer the Windows version of software over Mac versions (Microsoft Office for example).
Is there any consideration at AgileBits of moving to a much more common user experience? Right now its like having completely different software and multiplies the learning time (i.e. wastes my time.)
Thanks!
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And I am not saying this because I am a Mac bigot.
That's just incidental is it? :tongue: :lol:
Is there any consideration at AgileBits of moving to a much more common user experience? Right now its like having completely different software and multiplies the learning time (i.e. wastes my time.)
I've heard mentions on the forum of a re-vamp but nothing firm I'm afraid.
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Hi @BobMc,
Is there any consideration at AgileBits of moving to a much more common user experience?
Can you share more details as to what can we do to make 1Password a better experience for you?
We do want to simplify and modernize the overall experience but that's further down the line, we're still working on the core features of 1Password at the moment. We do try to make changes in the meantime to simplify whatever we can, as long as it doesn't require a major change that may be better reserved in the later development. If you can give us more details as what we can do, we'll see what we can do.
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@BobMc @MikeT I'd also like to poke in on this if I might, as I've been a long-time user of the Mac version (seven or eight years) and about a year and a half on the Windows version. There are UI things that annoy me to this day.
In some ways I have to disagree with Bob though, as I find myself more often in the Windows version than the Mac, specifically because the interface is more accessible. Sure, it's easy to say the Mac version is more streamlined, but to me, that's because there's a lot of things the Mac version DOESN'T LET ME DO that the Windows version does.
First and foremost: deleting old history data. Yes, it's great to have a copy of an old password, or a history of a changed credit card entry, etc. etc., but eventually I like to clean this up when I know the old data is of no use and I don't need to save it "just in case". I can delete this history data in the Windows UI, and very easily. I cannot delete this at all in the Mac version. There appears to be no option whatsoever to remove history data in Mac.
Second: the entry list view. This one is where Mac wins with me, but only slightly. I prefer the Item List Layout to be in "Top" mode. This is the ONLY way Windows displays it, but that's okay because I like it, and I select that view in Mac as well. I like how it gives me details of ALL my entries on a single screen, instead of having to look at them individually like the "Left" mode for Item List Layout on Mac works. However, there appears to be no option to control what columns are displayed. The Mac shows columns for Title, Website, Username, Password Strength, Last Modified, and Created. The Windows version only includes Title, Location(Website), Strength, and Modified. I wouldn't mind being able to add the Username column to Windows, at a minimum. And be able to remove the Created column in the Mac version, so it's less cluttered.
Third, TOTP. Windows and iOS only at the moment. It annoys the hell out of me that I can't sync my TOTP entries to Mac, and I don't understand why this feature wasn't rolled out across all versions simultaneously. It's very weird that the Mac version got no love on this feature. On a tangent, adding TOTP to an entry in Windows is annoying too. The UI falls down here. Adding it in iOS and syncing it to Windows is easy, but really, it ought to be just as easy to do it right there in Windows, and it isn't. It can be done, but I had to add an entry via iOS to figure out HOW to add it in Windows (by seeing what the resulting entry looked like in the Windows editor). Once I understood how to do it, it wasn't hard; it just wasn't obvious or intuitive. Since I do not sync iOS to Mac, I don't know if these entries would actually work on Mac or not. There sure doesn't seem to be a way to add TOTP directly within the Mac interface though.
Fourth, general syncing. I guess this isn't so much a UI issue as more of an issue with the "streamlined experience" in general (like TOTP really). I do not use automated methods of syncing (like Dropbox or Folder Sync). I prefer to just do a 1PIF export, because my vaults don't see a lot of change (nor frequently). However, my Mac will not import a 1PIF from Windows, period. Never has, not from the first day I started using the Windows version (which was September 2013). I have no idea why. The Mac version doesn't give me an error or anything, it just reads the file and then.. does nothing. However, Windows can read the 1PIF files from the Mac no problem. That's how I created my Windows install in fact. I simply exported my existing vault from my Mac as a 1PIF and then imported it into my new Windows install and boom, done.
I can still to this day import 1PIF from Mac to Windows, but cannot go the other direction. I don't know if it's because I have agilekeychain on Mac and opvault on Windows, but really that shouldn't matter, because 1PIF SHOULD be a defined, consistent output format regardless of the vault type. Otherwise there's no point in calling both export files 1PIF. If they are known not to be compatible they should be called different names, which would fall under a UI issue and streamlined experience issue both.
I also have a couple little quibbles with the Firefox plug-ins for Mac and for Windows, that are UI issues. Namely, and I guess this is probably again in the name of "streamlined", the Mac plug-in doesn't show me everything the Windows plug-in does. Or it hides it in the Settings (the little Gear) menu. Windows lets me see Favorites and Tags. Mac plug-in doesn't. The Mac plug-in hides the "Lock" function in the Gear menu where the Windows version puts it right on the main menu for the Extension, in easy and proper reach. Also it'd be nice if the Mac version had an option for "lock 1P when browser closes" like the Windows version has.
Sorry to ramble on so extensively, and this all might come across as kind of negative. So let me finish by saying I think 1P is a fantastic product and I plan to keep on using both versions (and iOS!). These are just thoughts on what would make an already good product, even better to me. :)
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Hi @mousit,
I can still to this day import 1PIF from Mac to Windows, but cannot go the other direction. I don't know if it's because I have agilekeychain on Mac and opvault on Windows, but really that shouldn't matter, because 1PIF SHOULD be a defined, consistent output format regardless of the vault type. Otherwise there's no point in calling both export files 1PIF. If they are known not to be compatible they should be called different names, which would fall under a UI issue and streamlined experience issue both.
I just tested exporting a vault to 1PIF from 1Password for Windows (4.2.1.BETA-550), copied the file over to a Mac running Yosemite, and imported into 1Password Version 5.3.BETA-17 (530017), and the 1PIF imported just fine.
Maybe the software you are using to transfer the 1PIF is mucking with line endings?
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Hi guys,
@Mousit, we appericate your feedback, thank you.
First and foremost: deleting old history data. Yes, it's great to have a copy of an old password, or a history of a changed credit card entry, etc. etc., but eventually I like to clean this up when I know the old data is of no use and I don't need to save it "just in case". I can delete this history data in the Windows UI, and very easily. I cannot delete this at all in the Mac version. There appears to be no option whatsoever to remove history data in Mac.
This isn't because of an interface issue, this is mainly because we don't think history should be editable in the first place and yes, there are inconsistencies about this across platforms.
The history is useful for security auditing, 1Password shouldn't generate the same password it used in the past. If you start deleting them, then 1Password has no history to compare to.
However, there appears to be no option to control what columns are displayed. The Mac shows columns for Title, Website, Username, Password Strength, Last Modified, and Created. The Windows version only includes Title, Location(Website), Strength, and Modified. I wouldn't mind being able to add the Username column to Windows, at a minimum. And be able to remove the Created column in the Mac version, so it's less cluttered.
We had this ability to customize which columns you want to see in 1Password 3 for Mac but we hadn't had the chance to restore it just yet. This is in our tracker right now as a bug and a lot of people have asked us to restore it. I'll add your vote to the list to have this support for both Mac/Windows.
Third, TOTP. Windows and iOS only at the moment. It annoys the hell out of me that I can't sync my TOTP entries to Mac, and I don't understand why this feature wasn't rolled out across all versions simultaneously.
We have different platform-specific teams of various sizes working on the features, it isn't easy for us to release same features at the same time as we have different priorities for each platforms due to the limited resources we have. We don't hold back releases just because one feature wouldn't be available in all platforms at the same time. If one platform needs certain fixes sooner, we will release it as soon as it is ready.
For Mac, we already added TOTP feature to the Mac beta builds a few weeks ago and it will be available relatively soon in the 1Password 5.3 for Mac updates.
On a tangent, adding TOTP to an entry in Windows is annoying too. The UI falls down here. Adding it in iOS and syncing it to Windows is easy, but really, it ought to be just as easy to do it right there in Windows, and it isn't.
We do agree and we need to modernize our editing experience but even more so, we need to modernize the overall experience. That's part of what Richard and I were talking about, a better UI needs to be developed.
Since I do not sync iOS to Mac, I don't know if these entries would actually work on Mac or not. There sure doesn't seem to be a way to add TOTP directly within the Mac interface though.
The TOTP secret is saved in the data file itself, we just need to build a special UI for it in each platform. Here's what 1Password 5.3 for Mac betas look like right now:
Here's a short GIF on how it looks when adding it:
I prefer to just do a 1PIF export, because my vaults don't see a lot of change (nor frequently).
Please be careful with this, 1PIF export files are not encrypted nor protected with a password. You expose your data completely each time you do this. It's safer to use a local sync tool to manually sync your files than exporting/importing because it is fully encrypted. Export/import should not be used to transfer data anymore than one time.
However, my Mac will not import a 1PIF from Windows, period. Never has, not from the first day I started using the Windows version (which was September 2013). I have no idea why. The Mac version doesn't give me an error or anything, it just reads the file and then.. does nothing. However, Windows can read the 1PIF files from the Mac no problem. That's how I created my Windows install in fact. I simply exported my existing vault from my Mac as a 1PIF and then imported it into my new Windows install and boom, done.
Have you contacted us in the past about this? We are not aware of any issues with 1PIF and both applications do support exporting and importing from each other, it's a consistent standard we've used for several years.
Windows lets me see Favorites and Tags. Mac plug-in doesn't.
Were you using 1Password 4 extension? 1Password mini ever since 1Password 4's release shows the tags and favorites:
1Password mini powers the front-end of the browser extensions, so it is consistent among all the browser extensions on Mac.
The Mac plug-in hides the "Lock" function in the Gear menu where the Windows version puts it right on the main menu for the Extension, in easy and proper reach.
We haven't seen many feedback to put it in the same location on the Mac, Mac users are used to letting 1Password auto-lock on its own or just simply press the lock shortcut via Command + Shift + Control + L. This is one of the areas where different platforms have users doing things differently. For cross-platform users, they'd prefer the consistent experience but for many Mac users, they prefer minimal settings and so, we put all settings inside one area via the gear button.
Also it'd be nice if the Mac version had an option for "lock 1P when browser closes" like the Windows version has.
We didn't get much requests to add this, that's why it doesn't exist on the Mac. We do not add options if not many users use it, we are attempting to reduce as many as options as we can.
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adding TOTP to an entry in Windows is annoying too. The UI falls down here. Adding it in iOS and syncing it to Windows is easy, but really, it ought to be just as easy to do it right there in Windows, and it isn't. It can be done, but I had to add an entry via iOS to figure out HOW to add it in Windows (by seeing what the resulting entry looked like in the Windows editor). Once I understood how to do it, it wasn't hard; it just wasn't obvious or intuitive.
@Mousit I can add the QR scanner to Windows, but you would have to feed it a (JPG or BMP) image. It will probably never be as easy as on your mobile device.
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I can add the QR scanner to Windows, but you would have to feed it a (JPG or BMP) image. It will probably never be as easy as on your mobile device.
You should probably include the abililty to use a scanner or webcam to capture the QR code, although that is somewhat more complex that using iOS or Android's camera.
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Hi @MrC,
I just tested exporting a vault to 1PIF from 1Password for Windows (4.2.1.BETA-550), copied the file over to a Mac running Yosemite, and imported into 1Password Version 5.3.BETA-17 (530017), and the 1PIF imported just fine.
Maybe the software you are using to transfer the 1PIF is mucking with line endings?
I just exported a single entry to 1PIF from 1P for Windows (4.2.1.BETA-551), copied the file to Mac running Yosemite. I copied it as two files actually. I copied once as "binary" transfer and once as "text" transfer just in case line endings might have gotten messed with. I attempted to import both files (one at a time) into 1P on Mac (5.1 stable). It didn't import either one. It gives me no errors. It just sits a second like it's reading the file, then.. nothing.
Have you contacted us in the past about this? We are not aware of any issues with 1PIF and both applications do support exporting and importing from each other, it's a consistent standard we've used for several years.
No I probably should have joined the forum sooner. This has been the case for me for the past year and a half. I've never gotten 1PIF to go from Windows to Mac ever. Though one thing to note is I've always tried to do it single-entry (because typically all I'm trying to DO is sync a single entry). I've never tried a whole-vault 1PIF from Windows to Mac.
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This isn't because of an interface issue, this is mainly because we don't think history should be editable in the first place and yes, there are inconsistencies about this across platforms.
The history is useful for security auditing, 1Password shouldn't generate the same password it used in the past. If you start deleting them, then 1Password has no history to compare to.
Fair enough, difference of opinion then. I don't use the auditing like that and tend to clean up the history instead, but I certainly accept "we don't want it to work this way" as an answer. :)
Were you using 1Password 4 extension? 1Password mini ever since 1Password 4's release shows the tags and favorites
1Password mini powers the front-end of the browser extensions, so it is consistent among all the browser extensions on Mac.
Nevermind on that; I feel like a bit of an idiot on that one. I hadn't synced my tags from Windows to Mac. My Mac didn't have any. :P Soon as I fixed that I see the tag list in the extension/mini now.
We haven't seen many feedback to put it in the same location on the Mac, Mac users are used to letting 1Password auto-lock on its own or just simply press the lock shortcut via Command + Shift + Control + L. This is one of the areas where different platforms have users doing things differently. For cross-platform users, they'd prefer the consistent experience but for many Mac users, they prefer minimal settings and so, we put all settings inside one area via the gear button.
Fair enough. I've never been a big keyboard shortcut type. I liked hitting the menu and hitting Lock. It's not exactly a huge extra step to hit the Gear then Lock. :)
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I can add the QR scanner to Windows, but you would have to feed it a (JPG or BMP) image. It will probably never be as easy as on your mobile device.
No, I think that'd be more trouble than it's worth. Almost every site provides the Key alongside the QR code, so that you can enter the Key into your TOTP program (like 1P), which works just fine for me.
It was more that adding a TOTP entry in Windows is invisible (not available at all) until you add a New Section. This was completely non-obvious to me and I never would've even guessed I had to do that (I've never actually used New Section before, ever; I've only ever needed the existing templates as-is). I added an entry from my iOS first and synced it to Windows, and then I could SEE what it looked like in Windows (with the new Section and all) and then understood how to do it in Windows. I was able to add another TOTP entry to another of my Login items straight from the Windows editor, and it worked fine.
Really, I think the primary issue is there's no documentation as yet on adding TOTP to Login items, except via iOS. All it would take is a small edition to the Knowledgebase for 1P for Windows saying how to do it.
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@MrC,
I'm using the standalone version downloaded from the website, not the App Store version. Holdover from being a 1P Mac customer for about 8 years, plus later when I started using it on Windows, the Mac+Windows combo license (that I was able to get at Upgrade pricing) was a better deal, so I've just never gotten around to getting or using the App Store version.
I'm vaguely curious if my 1PIF issues are in any way related to the other vault data issue I'm currently discussing in another thread.
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That makes sense. 1Pasword will abort an import if there is anything amiss in the 1PIF (or worse, crash). So it's probably worthwhile getting the other issue you reported out of the equation.
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It was more that adding a TOTP entry in Windows is invisible (not available at all) until you add a New Section. This was completely non-obvious to me and I never would've even guessed I had to do that
@Mousit Maybe we should have a button that adds the section and the TOTP in a single action. /cc @MikeT @AlexHoffmann
Really, I think the primary issue is there's no documentation as yet on adding TOTP to Login items, except via iOS.
@Nik Is this on our list of things to do?
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I think that would not be a bad idea. This is the way it's being handled in iOS.
You select to add a TOTP and it automatically adds a section that will contain a new TOTP field.
It would be the same workflow, adding familiarity across platforms.0 -
Maybe we should have a button that adds the section and the TOTP in a single action.
@svondutch @MikeT @AlexHoffmann Single button sure sounds good to me. That's certainly easy in iOS, and from the screenshot Mike included from the Mac Beta earlier in the thread, it looks like adding TOTP is much more straightforward there too.
It's either that, or maybe consider updating the editor template in the Windows UI. One thing the Mac version does that's very helpful, is that when you open Edit mode there's blanks in the template for a new section already. It just doesn't actually add a new section to the vault item unless you fill in the fields. However you can SEE them, even when blank, and also see the section fields (and their options, like Mike's screenshot demonstrates selecting the TOTP option for a field). In Windows, you have to explicitly hit the New Section button before you see any of that.
The Windows editor template including a new section by default (blank, not added to an entry unless you fill in data in that section, like the way Mac does it) would go a long way to showing users "hey all this extra stuff and these extra field options are here for you". I realize it's only a single step to press that New Section button in Windows, but I (sure hope I..) can't be the only one who never really even noticed that button was there before, having never needed anything in the New Section functionality until TOTP came along.
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@svondutch Yes that's what I was getting at with the rest of my comment. The Section fields are already there in the Mac editor template, just blank. So you can see them, and see the field options picklist, etc. The workflow is very similar to creating a TOTP entry in Windows, except that all this stuff is hidden in the Windows UI until you explicitly hit the New Section button. So even though the workflow is more or less the same, the act of actually finding these features and knowing they're available is notably different in look and feel.
As I said, I didn't actually even notice the New Section button in Windows until TOTP came along. I had always seen those blank fields in the Mac editor though. It had never even occurred to me that those same fields and options might be available somewhere in the Windows editor.
However it's certainly possible I'm just a dense user and not very intuitive on my own. :)
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See, I think we can rule out you being a dense user, we just need to look at your previous posts in here ;)
It's certainly worth trying to make the process of adding TOTP fields easier. If svondutch says it's doable, you can expect it to show up in a beta at some point.
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