After Dropbox sync with a new PC, previous data vault was replaced with a new empty one

errgin

Hello,

After a sync between two PC using Dropbox all entries disappeared from 1Password on both PCs. Within the DropBox I can still see all the files under
..\Dropbox\Apps\1Password\1Password.agilekeychain\data\default
but nothing loads and no error from 1Password directly. I tried File->Repair 1PasswordVault. That did not do anything. Also tried restarting 1Password and even uninstalling and re-installing. I also tried pointing it back to the default vault and then back to Dropbox. That did not help either.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

LauraR

@errgin - 1Password on Windows doesn't sync as such, it simply points to the 1Password vault in your Dropbox folder. To check where it is pointing -

• Run 1Password on Windows PC.
• Go to Preferences > General.

Are both PCs pointing to \Dropbox\Apps\1Password\1Password.agilekeychain ?

errgin

HI Laura. Thanks for the fast reply!
Yes it is pointing there with the exception that I don't have Dropbox installed in the default location. I have it at E:\Documents and Setting\myusername\My Documents\Dropbox\Apps\1Password\1Password.agilekeychain.
This did work at first - I was able to sync from Windows to my iPhone

LauraR

Could you create a diagnostics report from each Windows PC as per this guide -https://guides.agilebits.com/1password-windows-kb/4/en/topic/diagnostics-report - and email it to us at support+forum@agilebits.com. Please can you also include a link back to this discussion. Thanks !

errgin

I am a bit reluctant to do that. I checked the zip file 1Password creates. It has all the sites that I have passwords to in unencrypted text even though the passwords are encrypted. I am pretty technical - are there some other things I can look that may indicate why nothing is displayed within 1Password? It is able to access the vault within Dropbox and requires the correct password to unlock so clearly there is something there.
Could it be that the sync was in the wrong direction when I set up the second PC? ie it synced mostly an empty 1Password to Dropbox as this folder was newer than the original even though nothing was in it. I am not sure but I don't think I disabled sync while installing 1Password on the second PC. If this is the case then you should make the program more foolproof - ie in the installer program prompt the user to disable Dropbox (if used) before completing the installation of 1Password.

LauraR

The Diagnostic Report tell us about your system in general. We use this information solely for the purpose of diagnosing the issue you contacted us about.

The DR, as we call it, tells us about your 1Password data, but does not share any of the actual data itself. The data gathered generally include system logs that may tell us about other software and browser extensions that you are running. Again, there is no actual password information being shared in the DR.

You can read more about our approach to the security of your data here: https://guides.agilebits.com/kb/1password4/en/topic/security-overview

errgin

My mistake - iPassword does not send the web sites names but you do send a list of the files that contains the website information. I was looking inside the files of the vault (long encrypted name with extension 1password). I noticed that many but not all were empty. That is why I thought that the Dropbox sync may have occurred in the wrong direction. Any thoughts about that or about my comments regarding installation when using Dropbox?

I can see that I will need to go back and reconvert everything again from LastPass which is my current password manager. It looks like all the data is overwritten and is too difficult to recover from Dropbox because you have to recover each file individually to go back to an earlier file and there are hundreds of files.

errgin

I converted everything again from LastPass and synced again - this time making sure that 1Password was not running on the second PC before Dropbox sync was complete. I really think that you need to make this more foolproof. Too easy to launch 1Passpword on the new PC before sync has completed and then it will overwrote the real 1password files with empty ones. This does not happen with LastPass but LastPass has other usability issues.

LauraR

@errgin - I'm glad you tracked down the cause of this and thanks for reporting it here.

errgin

Yes sure. Would also be good if 1Password would report an error that the vault it is looking at is empty of login etc data rather than looking normal but not displaying anything in any of the folders.

One more suggestion - store vault backups in a folder that does NOT automatically get uninstalled when uninstalling 1Password. Because if you uninstall and then re-install you lose your backups.

Great to see a responsive support site though. Thanks.

LauraR

@errgin - The uninstall/reinstall should not affect any of your 1Password data including the backups. The backups are stored in the folder \Documents\1Password\Backup.

errgin

Hmm. Don't know how but my backup was gone and I didn't delete it. Not a problem now because I started from scratch and recreated everything.

AGAlumB

@errgin: I'm sorry for the trouble! (Un)fortunately, Dropbox syncs both file modification and deletion, so data loss on another device can propagate to the others. While troublesome in some cases, this is expected. But it is possible to restore lost files in Dropbox using their website.

I am more concerned that your backups may have been removed somehow. Please check to see if you have policies i place in Windows that might be preventing backups from being saved, or if there is other software (security suite, for instance) that might be interfering or 'quarantining' the files. I know we see false positives from time to time with pattern matching.

I hope this helps. Please let me know what you find!

errgin

Thanks Brenty. I don't know how the backup was lost. It was a brand new installation where I 'lost' the backup if 1password had even created the backup yet. At what point does 1password create the first backup automatically after initial data import? My suggestion is to prompt the user to backup after doing an import.

Also recreating files from Dropbox is next to impossible because you don't want the latest ones as they have been overwritten by empty files. So to get the older file you need look at each file, right click to show the earlier versions, select the right one then restore that file. I think there are something like 2500 files. Way too tedious.

Maybe there is a simpler method that I'm not aware of. If there is please let us know even though I don't need it now as I redid the import from LastPass.

By the way that perl script converter from your website worked very well although the readme has a small error - file name is different from the file name in the folder for action that sets up the environment variables. Sorry I don't have it with me now. Not in front of computer.

MikeT

Hi @errgin,

At what point does 1password create the first backup automatically after initial data import?

It automatically creates a backup file every day as long as there is a change to your data vault on that day. If there is no change to your data vault, we don't create a backup file as it already exists from the previous day.

Are you saying you still have no backup files right now?

Also recreating files from Dropbox is next to impossible because you don't want the latest ones as they have been overwritten by empty files.

You are correct, which is why we advise users not to treat Dropbox as a backup solution. It might be possible to contact Dropbox to get a restore based on a time period but I haven't seen anyone do this.

Maybe there is a simpler method that I'm not aware of. If there is please let us know even though I don't need it now as I redid the import from LastPass.

There isn't, the best way is to restore from 1Password backups, which means you do have to have a prior backup of your system. For some folks, they put their 1Password backups folder on Dropbox and that might work but we don't recommend this for syncing backups between computers. You'd want a separate backup for each computer you have.

The typical rule for backups is 2:1, two local copies and one remote copy (either your own cloud solution or external drive offsite like a friend's house or secure storage). Some folks uses their NAS to comply with the remote rule but that's considered as local unless they have it configured to be backed up to the cloud somewhere.

By the way that perl script converter from your website worked very well although the readme has a small error - file name is different from the file name in the folder for action that sets up the environment variables.

I'm glad to hear that. @MrC is our awesome community member who've worked on it. I'm pinging him here to let him know about the error.

MrC

@errgin,

By the way that perl script converter from your website worked very well ...

Excellent!

Can you help me understand what you mean here:

... the readme has a small error - file name is different from the file name in the folder for action that sets up the environment variables. Sorry I don't have it with me now. Not in front of computer.

You get to set the name of the export file, and the README indicates you should use the name pm_export.txt. Can you clarify what you found or the discrepancy you saw? Thanks in advance.

errgin

The README.pdf file in the folder C:\myperl (assuming you follow the directions for installing the perl scripts) says "2b. Enter the following command into Window’s Search programs and files box C:\myperl\portableshell.bat"

Well there is no file installed called "portableshell.bat".

The only file that seems related to updating environment variables is named "update_enc.pl.bat". If you run that file it appears to execute.

I also found that the rest of the commands only worked if I changed to the directory C:\myperl else it would not find the files needed so perhaps the environment variable for the paths etc were not set correctly but I was able to work around this by changing to the directory c:\myperl and using the full path for the rest of the command to execute convert_to_lp4.pl

Thanks.

MrC

Ah, I get it now.

The README also says:

Windows users will need to download the portable version of Strawberry Perl

But you download the installer version. Hence, the difference.

AGAlumB

@MrC: Ah, yeah that would make sense. :)

@errgin: It sounds like you should be all set, but don't hesitate to reach out if you need anything else. We're always here to help! :)

svondutch

Too easy to launch 1Password on the new PC before sync has completed and then it will overwrote the real 1password files with empty ones

@errgin 1Password for Windows does not write anything to your vault unless you specifically put a 1Password item "in edit mode" (Ctrl+E). That being said, if you happen to have reproducible steps then I would love to reproduce and fix this problem you were having. Thanks!

store vault backups in a folder that does NOT automatically get uninstalled when uninstalling 1Password

@errgin By default, 1Password creates backups in your Windows user account documents directory, and does not un-install them.

Because if you uninstall and then re-install you lose your backups.

@errgin I doubt this to be true, but I would love to dive into this if you happen to have reproducible steps. For starters, where is your backup directory? Thanks!

my backup was gone and I didn't delete it.

@errgin Maybe both your problems (disappearing items and disappearing backups) are related and there is a 3rd factor into play? Just a thought.