Syncing 1password 3.8.22 with 1password iOS 8.4

ociciornie

Hi!
I'm using 1Password version 3.8.22 because I'm still running Lion and I use my iPhone 5s with iOS 8.4.
I installed 1Password for iOS on my phone and I'd like to sync the vault I have on my mac with the one on my phone (still empty now).
As my 1Password version on my Mac hasn't the new features for syncing, I thought I could try these steps
1-first) make a copy of the agile file vault to put in my Dropbox
2-second) start from my app on my iPhone and choose the dropbox option to sync
3-third) select the agile file I put in Dropbox and (I presume) the syncing process should start.
I don't know if I'm right but anyway the problem is that I cannot find the file to copy in Dropbox.
I need help, thanks

---

1Password Version: 3.8.22
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: 10.7.5
Sync Type: dropbox

AGAlumB

1-first) make a copy of the agile file vault to put in my Dropbox

@ociciornie: Yep!

2-second) start from my app on my iPhone and choose the dropbox option to sync

So far so good!

3-third) select the agile file I put in Dropbox and (I presume) the syncing process should start.

On the Mac, all you need to do is double-click the 1Password.agilekeychain and open it in 1Password...but it sounds like you can't find it. To be sure, open 1Password for iOS and go to Settings > Sync > Sync Service and find the path to the vault there, which you can then open on your Mac.

In regard to syncing between the two, this works fine, but avoid making changes in 1Password 3 on the Mac. Since it doesn't known about the new custom sections that 1Password 4 and 5 use, it could cause some headaches for you if you're making edits in both places. The best thing to do is use it as a reader.

I hope this helps. Please let me know how it turns out! :)

ociciornie

Thanks for your quick reply and assistance !
However I can't understand… maybe you need more information and maybe I didn't tell you everything you need to help me.
If I open 1password on my phone I get a window that asks to me if I want a new vault or if I want to sync an existing one. No settings, no other option. The second step on my phone, after choosing the sync option, is a window with three option (iCloud, dropbox, wifi). That's it!

At last, I found the file (1Password.agilekeychain): its path is (as I had to know …) ~/users/(my account)/Library/Application support/1Password/1Password.agilekeychain.
Now I'd be going to copy this file in Dropbox on my Mac so I can find it when I'll look for it from my phone (from within iOS 1Password).
Is it OK?

But … you told me that I don't have to make changes in 1Password 3.
Well … I daily use 1Password 3 on my mac (and I'll keep on using it until I'll upgrade my OSX and I'll have to upgrade 1password ….)

I need only to have a copy of 1Password data (the ones residing on my Mac) on my iPhone: I don't need to add new data using my IPhone 1password … better … I can refrain from doing it if necessary to avoid a mess with my agile keychain… Is it that what you mean?
Thanks

littlebobbytables

Greetings @ociciornie,

May I suggest a slightly different route but one that achieves the same goal - to have your iOS and Mac device in sync.

Now you could manually copy that Agile Keychain to Dropbox but then you would still need to make sure 1Password 3 on your Mac is looking at the right one. We can merge these steps with the following.

In the General tab of 1Password 3's preferences there is the Move to Dropbox... which you may or may not be aware of. Now it isn't of any use because Dropbox changed something at some point and we no longer detect that Dropbox is running. What you might not know though is if you right click on the path above it you will get a small menu with three options. The one that will interest you is the Move Data File to Another Folder.... You can use that to manually move the .agilekeychain into Dropbox and achieve the same goal. I would recommend creating a folder titled 1Password or similar, something just so it's kind of neat.

With the only copy of your Agile Keychain moved to Dropbox, 1Password 3 for Mac will always look there. Then, after you've pointed 1Password for iOS to that same Agile Keychain it will first import everything and then any changes made on the iOS device will be saved to that same Agile Keychain for 1Password 3 on your Mac to find. To help on the iOS side this guide, Existing 1Password user will hopefully prove informative.

If I haven't answered everything to your satisfaction please do say.

ociciornie

Hi littlebobbytables!
Your suggestion is very nice and clear, but -from my point of view- has a big drawback: I don't like to put my passwords (actually i don't like to put anything!) on the cloud (iCloud or Dropbox or something else, doesn't matter!): I use Dropbox just for sharing file with friends and for backups of files of little importance and for the shortest time needed, if possible.
Actually (maybe you already understood my intentions…) I was going to put the Agile keychain in Dropbox just for syncing and to delete it immediately afterwards. Of course …. I realize it now ... I wouldn't be able to manage any effective syncing, at the most (but I'm not sure if it works) I could replace (from time to time) the most recent agile keychain starting from Mac (but I will never be able to save any item got through my phone).
Anyway ... I had a bad idea and yours is the right and smart one if I want to use Dropbox.

However you can now understand my new question: if I don't want to store my data in the cloud no matter how well-encrypted, as I don't have the most recent version of 1password, may I choose to sync using WIFI? Is there a way to manage this option even if I have 1Password 3 on my mac?
Thank you again for your kindness and patience.

AGAlumB

Your suggestion is very nice and clear, but -from my point of view- has a big drawback: I don't like to put my passwords (actually i don't like to put anything!) on the cloud (iCloud or Dropbox or something else, doesn't matter!):

@ociciornie: It's entirely up to you! We're just trying to offer workable solutions to your dilemma. But just to clarify in case it helps you or anyone else, your 1Password data is end-to-end encrypted, so 1Password simply doesn't depend on the sync service to protect your data. 1Password is secure by design, not by chance.

I use Dropbox just for sharing file with friends and for backups of files of little importance and for the shortest time needed, if possible. Actually (maybe you already understood my intentions…) I was going to put the Agile keychain in Dropbox just for syncing and to delete it immediately afterwards.

It is important to note that anything you put in Dropbox (and possibly other cloud services as well, but I am most familiar with how Dropbox does things in this case) are retained on the server even after being deleted. This allows you to restore a file if needed. In the case of 1Password, this doesn't matter: your data is encrypted. But if you are putting other, unencrypted data in Dropbox, even temporarily, I just want to make sure you understand that deleting it does not remove all traces of its existence.

However you can now understand my new question: if I don't want to store my data in the cloud no matter how well-encrypted, as I don't have the most recent version of 1password, may I choose to sync using WIFI? Is there a way to manage this option even if I have 1Password 3 on my mac?

1Password for Mac version 3 can only Wi-Fi Sync with 1Password for iOS (technically "touch") version 3. Wi-Fi Sync was rewritten fro the ground up in 1Password 4 and so Wi-Fi Sync in versions 4 or 5 only works with other devices running 4 or 5. Only updating iOS and 1Password on your iPhone complicates things a bit I'm afraid.

Thank you again for your kindness and patience.

Any time! That's what we're here for. I hope this helps, but let me know if you have any other questions! :)

ociciornie

Thanks… Your considerations about Dropbox are (obviously) correct. We have to hope that nobody will succeed in cracking dropbox …

About the wifi sync … you said "1Password for Mac version 3 can only Wi-Fi Sync with 1Password for iOS (technically "touch") version 3."
Do you mean that 1password 3 on my mac with Lion can sync using wifi only with and 1Password for iOS version 3 AND NOT using higher versions of 1Password for iOS ?
So … am I stuck?
That is, …. the only way i can use to sync (now) is using Dropbox?
Thanks again.

AGAlumB

Do you mean that 1password 3 on my mac with Lion can sync using wifi only with and 1Password for iOS version 3 AND NOT using higher versions of 1Password for iOS ?

@ociciornie: Correct. 1Password 4 and later use a completely different (more reliable) Wi-Fi Sync engine.

So … am I stuck?

Indeed, it does seem that way. The sync improvements in 1Password 4 and up is great news for most people, but in your case it means that it is not compatible with the old version you're using.

That is, …. the only way i can use to sync (now) is using Dropbox?

Based on your current setup, Dropbox is the only viable option, as 1Password 3 predates iCloud. But that brings us back around to this:

Thanks… Your considerations about Dropbox are (obviously) correct. We have to hope that nobody will succeed in cracking dropbox …

I can't stress this enough: even if your Dropbox account were to be compromised, your 1Password data cannot be decrypted without your Master Password. We don't have control over Dropbox (or any other cloud service), but because of this wonderful thing called encryption you and I don't have to worry if our 1Password data falls into the wrong hands. It's simply useless without the Master Password we use to secure it.

If at some point you're able to update to a newer version of OS X and 1Password for Mac (from the Mac App Store, for iCloud) that will open up some sync alternatives other than Dropbox. I hope this helps!

ociciornie

OK. I'll try Dropbox as littlebobbytables told me before.
Have a nice WE!

littlebobbytables

Hopefully everything goes smoothly @ociciornie but we're here if you have questions :smile:

ajdster

Hi there agilebits folks, littlebobbytables and anyone else reading .....

A full date (including year) on the posts would have helped a lot to determine if this potential fix were recent enough to pursue. This being November 2015, I (perhaps mistakenly) assumed this thread to be from September 2015.

Thus ---

The Dropbox upload isn't behaving as expected. It's currently uploading each of the files in the "keychain" as discrete files - including keys file itself - along with each data record. This is viewable on Dropbox, however, when viewed from 1P on the iPhone it appears as a single record. It does, however, still download as 'many discrete files'.

This method to sync does work (1P on my iPhone has completed its initial sync properly) -- but it doesn't have that 'happy happy joy joy' feeling it should have .....

I'm left with counting down that complete delete on Dropbox(!).

Just to relieve our paranoia -- can we get an explanation of what's going on?

Thanks!

littlebobbytables

Greetings @ajdster,

The thread is from September this year. If you hover the cursor over the time or date stamp (depending on the age of the post) it will use a tooltip to show you down to the minute when it was posted. It isn't obvious I agree.

Our sync containers are what you would call a bundle, just like all OS X applications are bundles. They're essentially folders which OS X treats in a special manner so an Agile Keychain is indeed a special folder and inside it is a folder structure that goes data/default and inside that folder are real files, one per item in your vault. This approach means a single edit wouldn't mean saving an entirely new copy of a file in Dropbox each time which you want to avoid. It's a form of optimisation and also helps reduce the potential for conflicts.

Does that help at all?

ajdster

Very nice explanation of what's going on, LittleBobbyTables, Thank You. That's what I thought was happening. :)

ociciornie wrote above: "If I open 1password on my phone I get a window that asks to me if I want a new vault or if I want to sync an existing one. No settings, no other option. The second step on my phone, after choosing the sync option, is a window with three option (iCloud, dropbox, wifi). That's it!"

However, the solution provided (using dropbox), is really only a bandaid solution for me, as I'm pretty sure it is for many others. That the bandaid isn't going to work for long doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the application (1P), but rather that it ties me to a service that isn't available where I live (broadband internet access) and/or a $$ investment in newer equipment that far outstrips the value of the reason.

For Example: It took 20+ minutes of high-speed broadband internet access to transfer my 1P data UP to dropbox from my Mac, 8+ minutes to access on my iPhone and another 20+ minutes to Delete from the server. Add the average 30-minute travel time on either end (when such service and access to it is even available) and you have a process taking almost 2 HOURS for a single transfer.

This is a needless time suck -- for a solution that is less than secure. The problem is that there is No Option in the iOS application for local transfer of 1Password data from a MacOS machine other than direct link with the application -- which option is not available with differing versions on either machine. At the same time, there is a Less Secure option available, at distance And based on available broadband service, for those same differing versions.

Really? When it's so simple to provide an option for local transfer in a product currently in revision?

8-)

Potential fix:
Since using either iCloud or dropbox to import a remote file is already offered in the iOS 8(+) program (iCloud, dropbox), why can't the use of a local network ftp server be an option -- even an "Advanced" option -- as well? Maybe under "wifi"? The end user could accept an advanced version of the conditions of use but the functionality would be there. The authentication/authorization step could still demand input -- thus the user grants access/authority just as in iCloud or dropbox. An ftp option can still demand the named server being present on the same local network as in the wifi option -- thus limiting virtual location to a single IP address or DNS name (much like iCloud & dropbox). The FTP server on Mac OS is robust, the interface language has been around for a long time and it's freely available.

In this way, Local users could simply provide access to the 1P file on their Mac's FTP server and the transfer would happen locally. No remote servers, no internet service required.

This would significantly improve useability of 1P for lots of us users/owners that aren't made of money for new toys and don't live in urban areas but still value what technology and quality applications can do for us.

BTW -- we don't use iCloud now (for the same reasons), so APPLE doesn't have anything to lose.

Whadya say? :)
ajd

littlebobbytables

Hi @ajdster,

I take it from the

$$ investment in newer equipment

comment that you're running 1Password 3 for Mac on a system that is incapable of running Mountain Lion or newer but that you're perfectly happy with. That would limit you to 1Password 3 for Mac as you seem to be aware of while you are likely running 1Password 5 or 6 for iOS given the reference to iOS 8+. Sadly our only local option, Wi-Fi Sync is either only between 1Password 3 or copies of 1Password 4-6. The reason is Wi-Fi Sync changed dramatically in the rewrite that was 1Password 4 for Mac and iOS and compatibility just isn't there.

Now for both iCloud and Dropbox on iOS we don't access a filesystem directly, both are done through APIs offered by their respective companies and in both cases we rely on the service to handle conflict resolution. It's one of the reasons why we work with those services. We did look into WebDAV a while back but performance issues meant it wasn't viable. I can see how 1Password 3 for Mac could accommodate FTP on Mac as it would merely be writing to disk but the sticking point will be 1Password for iOS where it would need to communicate with the actual server rather than a disk.

Unfortunately the only option for the foreseeable future will be Dropbox given your requirement of 1Password 3 for Mac. We do want to add more sync options but there is significant demand for alternative cloud services compared to additional local sync ones. I'm not saying it couldn't happen but I don't want to raise your hopes up either. Your particular scenario is a really unfortunate combination I'm afraid, one where I don't see an improvement on the immediate horizon - I am sorry :(

ajdster

You're right, littlebobbytables, there is no inherent conflict resolution with an ftp server -- but that's not the way the original poster nor myself were intending to use dropbox.

Anyway, since my only option for sync from Agilebits is either a new Mac computer (!) or Dropbox, I will rethink my process and find another solution. I may be ahead of the game but I'll be looking for something that includes local sync for my Mac laptop, iPhone, Windows laptop and my Android tablet.

In the meantime, maybe Agilebits will consider this a request to implement sync to a private 'cloud' like OwnCloud for 1P -- a solution which would completely solve mine and the original poster's issue.

Thanks for your time.

AGAlumB

Indeed, Dropbox is a very affordable, reliable, and — most importantly — available option. We'll absolutely consider adding additional sync options in the future as well, though, as we develop 1Password going forward. Thanks for letting us know you'd specifically like OwnCloud support. We'll continue evaluating that and other options. :)