Why sign up for a 1Password membership?
Comments
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I am a long time user. Have you removed the description for a standalone version from the pricing page? I read here that it can be found in the faqs, but don't see it. I wanted to get a standalone version for my dad.
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I am standalone user. My db is stored on Dropbox. My Dropbox account is secured using a very strong password - supplied by yours truly ;) - and 2FA. My question is: do the AgilisBits servers offer more security that my current set up? If not then I really can't see any need to move to the subscription model. Everything currently works perfectly for me. Security is my priority. If I have to do a little extra work to achieve this (the licensed model), then I'll go with that.
Some queries I have:
1) I've paid for a license. By switching, I feel like that I will have just wasted this money and could've bought a few month's worth of subscription instead. What's the incentive for licensed users to move? I guarantee that the "syncing' features won't matter because we all know what we're doing - otherwise we'd be using some other password manager.
2) In the subscription model, what happens if I lose signal on my mobile device and can't connect to the internet? Is there a local db that gets saved locally?As for the users mentioning the fact that they're concerned that 1Password will change completely to a subscription base. I can't see that ever happening. There are alternative, cheaper (even free) password managers out there. I know that I for one would jump ship if I felt forced in any way.
By the way, I love this app. It's without doubt one of the most useful apps I've ever purchased. Keep up the good work. :)
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I have used 1Password for years on a MacBook Pro & iPhone & iPad. Recently I needed a MacBook Air to travel to Russia and I started having issues with 1Password not syncing. It has given me enormous problems and my emails to support have gone unanswered. I hoped the Subscription service would be a solution but regretfully I am now looking for an alternative solution. Even if I have to manually type in 438 entries. If anyone here has any suggestions please email them to ueila at mac.com. Sorry guys. I just can not face any more problems. Good bye. Bill in Switzerland
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As such we are strongly pushing new users toward the subscription offerings. But licenses are still available.
Our current position is that as long as folks continue to purchase licenses we'll continue to sell them. Hopefully the folks that are passionate about the ability to purchase a license will vote with their wallet and support that business model. But I think we'll find both options can co-exist.
I think this says it all. If you basically don't let people choose what they prefer by hiding away the option to buy a single license, then it is only logical that people will not buy licenses anymore because they are not even aware of the option. I am really happy to pay for good software but I certainly will not buy yet another subscription to store passwords in the cloud. If my current standalone version stops running one day, or if I have the feeling that my data is not secure anymore because the software is no longer updated, I will have to go looking for another solution, I'm afraid.
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I read here that it can be found in the faqs, but don't see it. I wanted to get a standalone version for my dad.
@tonylop33 You can download the app from here: https://1password.com/downloads/
You will then be able to purchase a license from within the app.
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That seems kind of strange. What is the current price for a standalone license and is it listed anywhere?
Also, what about the MAS version? Can you have a new standalone version of that or is Agilebits the only place to get that now?
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I think the main reason people don't like subscription, even if though the 1password is great because they are tired of paying bills they have been forced to pay. We pay them all our lives. That's why many of the GPS voice navigation software out of business, people do not like paying monthly fees. I personally rather donate $$$ as a thank you for a great application that saves me time and money. People hate to be forced to do things they don't like.
Speaking about 1password, which I have been using for years, is one of the greatest password managing application, and I studied them all because I wanted to have a backup application if 1password decides to close.
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Hi @JockyMc,
Let me see if I can answer some of your questions.
I am standalone user. My db is stored on Dropbox. My Dropbox account is secured using a very strong password - supplied by yours truly ;) - and 2FA. My question is: do the AgilisBits servers offer more security that my current set up? If not then I really can't see any need to move to the subscription model. Everything currently works perfectly for me. Security is my priority. If I have to do a little extra work to achieve this (the licensed model), then I'll go with that.
The security of what you've described is good, assuming you have a very strong master password. Let's go with the assumption that you do in fact have a really strong one.
With a really strong Master Password, if someone manages to get access to your sync vault on Dropbox, you should still be safe.
1Password.com adds an additional layer here which is the Account Key. The account key serves to strengthen your Master Password, not so that you can choose a weaker one (you should never choose a weak master password), but to make cracking data sitting on the servers even harder.
I want to be clear: with a strong master password, what you have is a good setup. If it wasn't we wouldn't be allowing people to set it up.
Some queries I have:
1) I've paid for a license. By switching, I feel like that I will have just wasted this money and could've bought a few month's worth of subscription instead. What's the incentive for licensed users to move? I guarantee that the "syncing' features won't matter because we all know what we're doing - otherwise we'd be using some other password manager.If you don't feel compelled to switch to a 1Password account, you shouldn't. It's that simple. We feel that for a brand new user to 1Password, the best way to get started is via 1Password.com. You state "we all know what we're doing - otherwise we'd be using some other password manager." You should be careful about talking for anyone but yourself. I've been with AgileBits for almost 3 years now, and I've worked with countless customers who were completely confused by our sync setup. What's obvious to one person is completely opaque to another.
Simpler sync setup probably one of the more minor features of 1Password.com though.
2) In the subscription model, what happens if I lose signal on my mobile device and can't connect to the internet? Is there a local db that gets saved locally?
This is an excellent question.
As an end user, it works exactly the same... so yes there's a local database that will work when offline. It's designed from the start with the assumption that you've got limited internet accessibility, just like how Dropbox sync was designed.
But with Dropbox and iCloud, every device is a peer. For the most part this is fine. Dropbox has Conflict file support which we work with, and iCloud/CloudKit has conflict detection. This has some advantages, but some disadvantages as well. For example in a company environment, syncing 1Password vaults via Dropbox really didn't scale. Once you hit around 15 devices syncing to the same AgileKeychain/OPVault you start to have a relatively high chance that you'll end up with the peers finding themselves in a sync loop each trying to do the same work and arguing about who the source of truth is.
If Dropbox sync is working well for you, I'm really happy. Keep using it. We still support it, and in fact we're currently in the process of rebuilding the code for it in our iOS app to make sure everything keeps working nicely through the upcoming changes this summer with Dropbox.
I hope this answers your questions. I'm happy to answer others you may have.
Rick
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Please correct me if i'm wrong but it feels like the subscription model is the equivalent to paying for a new license every year, but the license model gives us access to upgrade pricing which brings down the total cost of ownership over a number of years.
So my question is are you planning to retain upgrading pricing for the license model?0 -
My question is: do the AgilisBits servers offer more security that my current set up? If not then I really can't see any need to move to the subscription model
I moved to the subscription version although I am a long-time user. I recently bought a couple of Android phones (unexpectedly). Setting up 1PW without having to bother with Dropbox was extremely easy. Almost worth the change for that alone.
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Please correct me if i'm wrong but it feels like the subscription model is the equivalent to paying for a new license every year, but the license model gives us access to upgrade pricing which brings down the total cost of ownership over a number of years.
So my question is are you planning to retain upgrading pricing for the license model?
@PSiAU: You're both right and wrong. It's just a matter of context. For example, if you're only using 1Password on one device, an individual 1Password membership is roughly the same as paying to upgrade the desktop app each year. However, if you're anything like me, buying a new version — even with an upgrade discount — for multiple platforms can add up (just ask my bank after VMWare and Parallels get updated — I wish the latter had a Windows version included in their subscription!) And if you have a spouse and/or family you're trying to secure as well, that cost multiplies even more quickly. Just a thought.
We don't have any plans to change the licensing system now, and frankly it doesn't make much sense to given that we'll need to build a new version first before worrying about selling it. ;)
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@danco: That was my experience too, and I've been a die-hard Dropbox user for nearly a decade. Nothing against Dropbox; it's a great service for what it is designed for, but 1Password.com is just seamless. Funnily enough, I picked up an Android phone recently as well, and have really been enjoying 1Password a lot more there than I ever did on my cheap, sad tablet I'd been using. I'll have to pick your brain about this later. :lol:
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This is still very unclear.
I purchased 1Password and use on all my Mac computers. I backup my vault via icloud and all has been working well. But now I get a message to say my account is frozen. Does this men I will no longer be able to use 1Password on my machines and add new login details to share via my own cloud account?
I understand you need to keep revenue coming in to enable development of the service. But it seams you have taken away something that was originally included in the original purchase and now require a monthly subscription for the service.
The fear is that this might actually push original users away to other secure password alternatives such as Google Password or many others.0 -
This is still very unclear.
@Wicko: I'm really sorry about that. I'll do my best to help clear things up.
I purchased 1Password and use on all my Mac computers. I backup my vault via icloud and all has been working well. But now I get a message to say my account is frozen. Does this men I will no longer be able to use 1Password on my machines and add new login details to share via my own cloud account?
That sounds like you purchased a standalone license for 1Password in the past (which entitles you to use that version for as long as you wish without paying again) but then also signed up for a 1Password.com Account, which is part of a subscription service. If you continue to use the former, you're all set. But you can't use the latter new service past the free trial without subscribing.
I understand you need to keep revenue coming in to enable development of the service. But it seams you have taken away something that was originally included in the original purchase and now require a monthly subscription for the service. The fear is that this might actually push original users away to other secure password alternatives such as Google Password or many others.
I apologize for the confusion. Nothing has been taken away from you. You can continue to use 1Password as you always have. But if you want to take advantage of the benefits of a 1Password.com membership (like automatic offsite backup and sync, and getting access to all of the apps and web interface), it does cost money.
Let us know which you'd prefer, and we'll help you get things sorted out. :)
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@prime: Sure! It's pretty straightforward, but feel free to ask any questions you might have. Essentially everything you save in your vault(s) is encrypted and stored, but when you make changes to one, the original isn't wiped out. Instead, while the item now by default shows the current version, you can also revert to an older one if needed — for example, if you made a mistake. It's sort of like a "1Password undo", except with data integrity:
1Password.com item history
And the automatic backup in general is related, but even simpler: since all of your encrypted data is stored on 1Password.com, a lost, stolen, or damaged device — even your vey last one — isn't the end of your data. Not very sexy, but it helps me sleep better at night. ;)
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the following comment was posted here earlier by another member named KeyProtection
"My problem is with Brenty's deceptive responses towards users who don't like subscription models. Brenty likes to emphasize that as long as users keep buying perpetual licenses, that 1password will continue to offer them. Well that's fine and dandy but how the hell are users going to buy the perpetual licenses when they are buried in the FAQ? How many people even read the FAQ? Honestly, you're barely even giving your users a change [chance] to buy the perpetual license, BARELY.
Of course the subscription model is going to win, it's practically a secret that a perpetual license is still available.
Later Brenty will claim that a perpetual license is no longer available because users stopped buying them, well duh.
Deception is a form lying and that's what is going on here. That's the last thing you want from a company selling you software to manage passwords."
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Those are strong words, but, well duh, KeyProtection has put his finger right on the issue here. And this is not the first time AgileBits has changed the rules in the middle of the game. I bought a combination Family License for 1Password 3 and Knox. Then, later, when it came to upgrades, I was told that I could not upgrade the family license. They had changed the rules. So, reluctantly, and someone miffed, I upgraded to a single license for the most recent version. I, too, don't care for "subscription models." I saw somewhere here there was a customer was complaining about spending $600 over the next 10 years on a subscription for 1Password. His math was wrong, and the corrected number is $360, but the moderator said that the better way to look at it was that is was only 10 cents per day. Well, why not "just .41 cents per hour" or "just .0069444 cents per minute." All of these are disingenuous, IMO. Remember this day, you folks who decide to subscribe. Not only will you see Agile bits dipping into your credit card account every month for another $3 or so, but there will come a time when the company asks for your understanding that the company, after much internal angst, has been "forced" to raise the subscription price to..... and the reasons are ...blah blah blah.
The conclusion that many of us have reached, is that the decision to push everyone to a subscription model, is, well a money grab, pure and simple. It'a America, and that's free enterprise, but offering this up as some sort of favor to the customers is not the right approach, and does not, while hiding the standalone option, feel very above board. They say they are offering a choice, but are they really? KeyProtection was right, except for the ad hominem attack, which was improper.This is all very sad, because I like the product I thought I had bought and seem to be re-buying through upgrades with few additional useful features, other than working on the current OS. You know what? I don't really want any new features. I just want this product to function as it does, only keeping up with the current operating system. And I sure don't want a subscription. Those are for magazines and newspapers, not software.
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I tried the family subscription for almost a month, and all the learning, using and research, I like if. I was against it, happy with Dropbox, and no reason to change. I love reading about online security and try to keep me informed (to the user who said they haven't updated their computer in 5 years... bad idea). I used Dropbox due to the one computer we used as a family, and I liked the idea if for whatever reason I went to Windows or Android, I was ready.
So one day I was reading MacRumors and came across this article: Dropbox Responds to Mac 'Security Risk' Accusations and I slowly changed all to iCloud. Dropbox lost my trust 100% and I haven't used them since. I removed them from all computers also. Recently my wife got a promotion and I wanted to make her life easier at work. I got a Windows license for her and she was set up. I didn't like that she didn't have a back up if her computer crashes, again, done with Dropbox.
I been looking for a better way, and an easier way. For an average person, setting up a 3rd party to sync isn't easiest. I set up my moms 1Password, my in laws (still using Dropbox for now until they come back from Arizona), and other friends. My in-laws are retired and go to Arizona for the winter. My father in law absolutely loves 1Password. My issue is if he or my mother in law ever got a new phone, iPad, or whatever, setting up 1Password would be a pain for them. My father in law has very little patience also.
So February of this year comes around and Agilebits has a family deal sale; 10 users and 2GB of data for the same price as 5 users and 1GB. I got this deal because I now have enough users for changing all my family members over. And it was a great deal!
My family always calls me for help for any computer issues, and myself as the admin, it makes sense. Setting up is SOOOOO much easier and soooo much quicker. All you do is scan the new device from an existing one (or even from the on-line version) and put in your master password. So easy, and solves my mom and my in-laws issues on setting up if I'm not there. No more needing a 3rd party company needed to do this.
One of my concerns was security and 2FA (2 factor authentication) and the lack of it on 1Password for Families. I have this feature set up on all of my important accounts, and it was one of the things holding me back from getting the subscription. One day as I was deleting a Dropbox, I remembered I have a recovery password (this is used in case you can't get the 1 time password, and all accounts that you set up 2SA has them) for this Dropbox. This recovery password is 16 characters long, and the account key/secret key for your 1Password subscription is 40 characters long (and an encryption key). What do you think is safer? People need to realize that 2FA is not 100% and can be worked around. I actually posted somewhere on this site how one way it can be done (it was a YouTube video).
You can see my concerns, my rants, and questioning this new set up on these forums . You can ask @brenty, @khad, and others how I was. I've also had issues and this 2 and others have helped me. I know I've asked them some of the stupidest questions and they answer it with no issues.
I said this before, nothing in life is free. Dropbox is free for a reason, and free apps are free for a reason.
People who say it's too much money, we all spent more on something so useless before. Once a week, we go out for dinner, and sometimes we'll get coffee. I spend more on coffee a month than on 1Password, and I bet a lot of others do too.
Sorry for my long rant :p
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but there will come a time when the company asks for your understanding that the company, after much internal angst, has been "forced" to raise the subscription price to..... and the reasons are ...blah blah blah.
Any software developer selling licenses could greatly increase the cost of a license the next time a new version was released. If you wanted the new features in a new version, you would be strong-armed into paying it, or you would have to forego the new features.
1Password subscription pricing, on the other hand, is locked in. Once you are on a 1Password subscription plan, the price doesn't ever change for you. This is the exact opposite of what you describe.
For example, we have people who are locked in to our early bird pricing plan that was available when 1Password memberships first became available. They don't have to keep track of any future pricing changes because they won't be affected by them. This is true for everyone, including you if you ever want to lock in a great deal you see on a 1Password membership.
So, while every subscription service may not have price protection, 1Password does. Everyone with an active 1Password membership gets all the new features, and they will only ever pay the price they agreed to pay.
And, of course, I've purchased software licenses in the past from developers who were acquired or went out of business. This is almost always because they didn't have sustainable pricing. If you really love a product or a service, don't you want them to be around longterm? That seems to be exactly what you are concerned about, so I'm surprised that you are advocating for a business model that would actually make it less likely for us to be around years from now.
I don't know about you, but I want a password manager that's constantly updated with security improvements and new features, from a company that's going to be around for the long haul. I don't want to be forced to switch tools if there's an acquisition or the company decides that it isn't making enough money from its password management division. I count on 1Password because AgileBits is completely self-funded. We have no outside investors, and we've turned down many offers to sell out. We set sustainable prices for 1Password, so we don't have to rely on investors' money or — worst of all — advertising money at the expense of your privacy.
- 1Password isn't a tiny part of a large corporation. 1Password is all we do. We don't have other products that need our attention, and we don't have investors or advertisers to answer to. Our focus is solely on your needs.
- Our founders are here every step of the way, working daily to make 1Password better by listening to you. We've been around for over a decade already with no plans on slowing down.
- We use 1Password ourselves, and we accept nothing but the best. That's why we're constantly striving to make it better.
A software license model doesn't guarantee anything more than a subscription model. Either way, a company could go out of business. But a business model that is sustainable has a much greater chance of success than one that isn't.
Why we introduced 1Password memberships
As @prime mentioned in his (awesome) post, syncing is a huge issue. The vast majority of all support issues over the years are from folks fighting with advanced syncing options. Everyday users like my uncle (who is an accountant and an overall very smart guy) struggled to get syncing working, or to share vault with others.
Most people are used to services that "just work". They don't spend time syncing their Gmail. They just sign in, and their email is available to them. Now, you and I thought that's what iCloud and Dropbox syncing provided. But it didn't. It was another set of credentials to remember on top of the Master Password. It also limited the sharing options we could provide. Most families have at least some items they want to share: Netflix password, Wi-Fi password, garage door code, etc.
- The WLAN server is at the whim of network configuration issues (routers, software firewalls, etc.), and troubleshooting those kinds of issues is far beyond the capability of most folks. It also doesn't provide any way to share anything with others.
- iCloud doesn't offer a way to share between iCloud accounts, so sharing is also impossible with iCloud.
- Dropbox offers folder sharing, and that's what we were recommending to folks. But the complexity is enormous if you aren't very comfortable with computers. And if something went wrong, half of the setup was being done in a product we have no control over and limited visibility into. People were paying us for a feature that we sometimes couldn't help them get working! It was an awful experience, and we love 1Password customers too much to make them put up with that.
Now, with a 1Password account, you just create a new vault and specify who you want to access it. It "just works". And if you want to share something with your entire family, it's even easier. Just move the item to the built-in Shared vault. That's it. There is literally nothing else to set up.
We created 1Password memberships to make 1Password the best it can be. I'm so much happier now that 1Password has the power of memberships, but I'm only happier because our customers are so much happier.
Here are some other ways 1Password memberships improve things for our customers:
All your data is synced automatically when you sign in, so there's nothing to set up or worry about configuring wrong.
No more telling people that never set up syncing or had it misconfigured that I'm sorry they lost their data when they reset their phone.
Built-in data loss protection means your secrets aren't just safe; they're always available.
No more telling people that I'm sorry that when they deleted some files from their hard drive they didn't realize they inadvertently deleted all their 1Password data.
Syncing is optimized because we do it ourselves. This allows us to not only quickly troubleshoot sync issues, but also improve immediately when a fix is found. All this results in a rock solid solution that eliminates an entire category of issues you could encounter.
No more explaining that we don't have any control or visibility into third party sync solutions and are therefore limited when troubleshooting those kinds of sync problems.
Access 1Password everywhere with a single subscription.
No more explaining why purchasing 1Password on one platform doesn't automatically unlock it on all other platforms. Not only is it really hard for customers to understand that 1Password is "licensed per person, per platform, with paid upgrades", but it's an incredible mouthful for us to even say.
Enjoy new features as soon as they're ready.
No more needing to hold back on features for creating a "big splash" for major upgrades. These require purchasing a license upgrade, and it was important to save up features (often for a year or more) to woo users to open up their wallets.
Recover accounts for family or team members who have forgotten their Master Passwords.
No more explaining to people who have forgotten their Master Password that they need to start over from scratch.
Now, I can't compile a true "no more" list just yet. Not everyone has a 1Password membership, so we still work through those issues every day.
We continue to support everyone managing standalone vaults themselves. After all, we still answer questions from 1Password 3 users, so we're not about to stop answering questions about standalone vaults. But we are going to try to nudge folks in every way possible. All the time spent explaining all of those caveats can be spent making 1Password even better and easier to use for everyone.
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Most families have at least some items they want to share: Netflix password
@khad, funny you should say this. My daughter went out of town with her mom, and she never put Netflix on her iPad. So she texted me asking last night if we can do this when I see her next time. So I figured, I would give this sharing vaults a try. I was able to make a shared vault and my daughter has read access only. It was great! I could have texted her the info, but then it goes to her other devices, and people can see. I'm trying to be extra careful with passwords, teach my daughter to be careful, and this was a great feature.
I texted her back to open her 1Password and she had the login info for Netflix.
And thanks for the kinds words :)
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@prime, that's fantastic! I'm glad the shared vault was easy enough to set up that it made it worthwhile. If your daughter is anything like me, she would definitely not been keen on trying to get a Dropbox shared folder set up just to get that password from you. (And that's assuming you were even using Dropbox anymore.)
It's hard to explain to folks just how much of a difference easy sharing makes if they don't try it for themselves, so I'm glad you gave it a shot. :)
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@khad it was very easy and so convenient. My daughter mainly used iCloud for syncing, but she was smart enough to set up separate vaults and sync them using wifi sync (she used Dropbox until I told her about the issues). I was actually impressed she did that on her own lol.
That was the only issue going to 1Password for Families was only the admins can set up other vaults. My daughter is just a family member, so she can't set up another vault for herself. She had one for personal and one for school, and she can't do that now. I helper her use the tagging for things, and she was ok with that.
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@prime, I'm sure you already know you could designate her as a family organizer, but that does include other responsibilities (such as account recovery) as well. But, yeah, other than the vault I share with my wife, I wouldn't have a need for another personal vault. Tags are great for me, too! :+1:
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Hehe you know better than we would. Organizer is a high bar for me as well. ;)
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I keep seeing variations on the statement of “We will continue to sell the stand alone version as long as people keep buying it” from the 1Password team..
The problem with this statement is that 1Password (agilebits) has made the link to purchase nearly impossible to find. There is no representation of it on the main 1Password.com site.
If a user wants to find it they are forced to do a search for “1password standalone purchase” at which point they will be directed to AgileBits Store (https://agilebits.com/store) where they can make the purchase..
This is a classic ‘talk one story and do something different’ which is very disappointing..
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@hukaze, why would an existing customer need it? They already have it, and they would know where to find it if they wanted something else. New customers will most likely go to the new version. If I owned a company, came out with a new product, I would also push it as well as they are. Wouldn't you? I bet in a few years no one will be asking about the stand alone license anymore.
I work in the tech field, we have technology companies as our customers, and we push their new products too. Some have legacy equipment out there, and want to get rid of. So much, if a customer switched from legacy stuff to try the new fancy stuff, they can NEVER switch back to the legacy. Do you see Agilebits doing this? No. Is the link to the stand alone licenses still working? Yes.
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@prime I am speaking specifically for the new customers.. Not everyone is as gung-ho about putting their sensitive data on a server controlled someone else, which is actually owned by someone else. (odds a pretty high they don't own the infrastructure that they host on, but that is another discussion entirely) As a security minded company I would have hoped that agilebits would have taken this into account.
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@hukaze I know you were speaking for new customers. As I said, most new customer will never know there was a stand alone version. Unless you're using wifi syncing or file sharing for syncing, you're using someone else's system. I been reading all the info Agilebits has, showed it to actually white hat hackers, and Agilebits has their stuff tight. They have 3rd party company audits , and $100,000 bounty that I've been posting all over the internet.
Not saying anything will never happen, but if it does, it's a blob of data that a hacker will have. You need 2 different passwords to unlock your data (both are encryption keys), how many passwords do you need to unlock the data in Dropbox (not inducing the Dropbox itself)? 1
You're right, Agilebits don't own the infrastructor, and they even tell you that they run on Amazon Web Services.
Dropbox... one of the main reason why I tried the new subscription and dropped Dropbox, they lost my trust for ever. Dropbox pulled in my eyes, some shady stuff.
Ask all the questions and doubts you have, I already did. I'm even reading The White Paper. So ask away and they will give you an the answer that people need. Yes, it's scary having this data on other servers, but I thrust them more than Dropbox.
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