Questions on export/import and documents
I'm trying to figure out what my path forward is. I hoped to be able to move to 1Password 6 using a local (Dropbox-synced) vault and to use that as a stepping stone to Teams/Families. It's pretty clear that this is not going to work any time soon due to the lack of near-term support for writing of local vaults. So on to plan B, which is to move from 1Password 4 directly to the cloud.
1Password folks - for what it's worth, I think you're making things very confusing by partially supporting local vaults. I think you're doing this to allow people to load their vaults up and then move items to the cloud. My feedback is that partial support for local vaults is actually more frustrating and confusing than no support at all. Just my 2cents.
So I exported from 1Password 4 and then used the Windows beta to import into my Families account. Worked pretty well but the import was confusing because it didn't give any indication that it had begun/completed and so I actually imported a second time before I figured out that the process had already kicked off.
I hope you can answer a couple of questions about what I should expect from the import process:
Can you clarify the extent to which import is or isn't going to drop or alter fields? I have hundreds of items of all types (including many with custom sections and fields). Can I expect full fidelity import or should I be prepared for issues?
Please help me understand documents. I have document attachments in my vault. As far as I can tell, they're not importing. Is that correct?
So I get that documents in Teams/Families are top-level items vs. children/attachments of other items. I've seen reference in documentation to "linking" of items to documents. Looking at the web UX, I can't find any way to associate a document with another item. Am I missing it or is it maybe only a feature of the Mac client or something like that? I'm hoping to understand the current state of things - I use documents for things like receipts and crypto key files and need to figure out how this maps to the new product.
Thanks for your time!
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Comments
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Hi @zendnez,
We do apologize for the confusion, we're in the midst of simplifying this further once we make a final adjustment in 1Password 6 Beta related to the migration bug with the older .agilekeychain format.
Can you clarify the extent to which import is or isn't going to drop or alter fields? I have hundreds of items of all types (including many with custom sections and fields). Can I expect full fidelity import or should I be prepared for issues?
It should be including all fields without any alterations. The only exception is the older template items, such as items created back in 1Password 1.x for Windows. They're imported as such but they're not upgraded to make it show up in other 1Password apps. We are working on a separate process to upgrade them for you. We don't want the import to change anything, so that's why it has to be a separate process with your intervention.
Please help me understand documents. I have document attachments in my vault. As far as I can tell, they're not importing. Is that correct?
Correct, there is no documents or attachments support in 1Password 6 Beta right now. You must keep your local vault files until we add this support. I'll explain more below.
So I get that documents in Teams/Families are top-level items vs. children/attachments of other items. I've seen reference in documentation to "linking" of items to documents. Looking at the web UX, I can't find any way to associate a document with another item. Am I missing it or is it maybe only a feature of the Mac client or something like that? I'm hoping to understand the current state of things - I use documents for things like receipts and crypto key files and need to figure out how this maps to the new product.
I assume you mean Related Items. This is currently only supported in the Mac app, there's no way to edit it in other apps yet. We might change how this works in the future.
Here's how they all fit:
- Documents: A category that holds each file as its own standalone item, they're "attachments" that is not related to any other items. This is exclusive to 1Password accounts, local vault files doesn't have this category. Documents can be moved between vaults and accounts. So, in your case, you can copy the receipt to a different vault without the rest of the item that you may not want to be copied over.
- Attachments: Files that are attached to specific items. For local vault files only. When properly supported in 1Password 6 Beta, attachments are uploaded separately and converted to be their own Document items with one extra property, it'll be added as a Related Item under the item that originally hosted this attachment.
- Related items: A field that establish a relationship between one item and another by storing the UUID of the other item. Right now, this is limited to the Mac app as we're still trying to figure out the best approach to this. A common related item is the attachment. If you upload an old Secure Note item with an attachment, a Secure Note item will have a Document item added as a related item. A Bank Account item can add a Login item as a related item if it is used for the same bank's website.
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@MikeT - Thanks for the explanation. This is really helpful.
You're correct that I'm referring to "Related Items" - I'm not currently using a Mac and I'm on a local vault so I'm not seeing the feature.
Personally, I prefer the attachment approach to the Related Items approach. I find Tags appropriate for relating things. I find attachments simple and useful for saying "this attachment is embedded in this item". If I move something with an attachment between vaults, I want the attachments to travel with the item.
Big picture, though, is that I really need just one golden path approach to 1Password which works for Mac, iOS, Windows, Android. One set of concepts, one logical model. All features supported across all platforms. Hope we get there soon.
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Hi @zendnez,
Big picture, though, is that I really need just one golden path approach to 1Password which works for Mac, iOS, Windows, Android. One set of concepts, one logical model. All features supported across all platforms. Hope we get there soon.
That's exactly what we're trying to do with 1Password.com, we've moved a lot of the stuff onto the server-side, so that 1Password apps does less work and be more consistent across all platforms. With 1Password.com, we control all of the stuff, which means we can now do awesome stuff that we couldn't do before. But before we do that, we have to get all 1Password apps reasonably in sync with feature parity first. Stay tuned, once we break even, a lot of cool features will be coming.
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@MikeT wrote : "That's exactly what we're trying to do with 1Password.com, we've moved a lot of the stuff onto the server-side..."
I hear you and I see evidence of that but then along comes the Mac-only feature of Item References and things get weird again. You have my vote for an approach to future features in which no client apps ever get ahead of 1Password.com and no platform lags behind 1Password.com for any substantial length of time. That would be awesome.
So just one more question : if I borrow my wife's Mac and do the import of my vault into 1Password on that machine (from our OPVault) will attachments be converted to Documents and will Item References be created on 1Password.com? I could live with that.
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Hi @zendnez,
So just one more question : if I borrow my wife's Mac and do the import of my vault into 1Password on that machine (from our OPVault) will attachments be converted to Documents and will Item References be created on 1Password.com? I could live with that.
Yes, in the Mac app, you don't even need to do the export > import process, just open the local encrypted vault file as is and copy them all over to your 1Password account, it'll be converted. Here's an example of me uploading a local item using the Mac app with an attachment and how it looks after uploading it to my 1Password.com account:
1Password.com web app:
1Password 6 Beta for Windows:
Since 1Password 6 Beta doesn't support any attachment/documents yet, what you see is the UUID # of the said Document item instead. When we do implement full support for this, all we have to do is turn the UUID into a link to the said Document Item.
In fact, if you click on copy next to the Related Item field, enter it in the search field, 1Password 6 Beta will return you the Document Item that matches that UUID.
I hear you and I see evidence of that but then along comes the Mac-only feature of Item References and things get weird again.
As you may understand by now seeing it in action above, Related Items is a custom section with reference fields linked to UUIDs of the item you've added. It's not a Mac feature and is supported on 1Password.com as well. We just have to convert the UUID into a usable link in 1Password 6.
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Ok...so I'm on 1Password.com. I've created a Document item. I've created a Note item. I want to create a custom field in my note that is a reference to my Document. How do I do that?
Is the answer "Use a Mac"? Or is creating new references only happening for imported items?
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Hi @zendnez,
Yes, for now, you have to link it in the Mac app. The web's UI doesn't have an easy implementation to do this yet.
Sorry, I should've clarified what I meant by supported on 1Password.com, it supports reading the said Related Items section, it just doesn't let you create/add them just yet as the web UI doesn't have a way for you to add an item. In the Mac app, you just either drag the attachment into the editing view or click on Link Existing to get the UI to add an existing item. The plan is to replicate this on Windows as well.
In addition, given the complexity of doing this consistently across platforms, we might actually end up pulling this feature and find a different way.
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Got it, @MikeT .
I really do hope that the future of 1Password is a future in which no logical model changes can be released on a specific platform before they're in 1Password.com. Us Windows users have been bit by this before (e.g., folders vs tags) and it's a real problem. This is unfortunately another example but it's even weirder since it's a case in which the Mac app was allowed to get ahead of the service. That's just odd to me. Probably to you, too. :)
I really appreciate the time you've spent on this thread. It helped a lot. Best wishes.
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We've changed a lot in the last two years alone on how we approach cross-platform development and things will continue to get better, all of our teams are in constant communication on how to approach things as we continue to learn from each other. 1Password.com is really pushing us hard to work on cross-platform consistency first. Hopefully, in the near future, we'll be able to prove it. We're still a bit out of sync on all platforms but the gap is closing quickly.
Related Items is just one of these rare exceptions because it was the first thing we've worked on with 1Password.com a few years ago where macOS was the only platform supporting it as a testing ground, which went through a lot of things that none of the platforms will have to go through.
Our largest development team is the macOS/iOS team, so it is not surprising that they'll get stuff implemented quickly. We need to be able to test new features and see if it is something that we want to use or kill. Right now, it is inefficient for all platform teams to develop same new features at the same time, only to find out later that it was not worth it.
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