"+ New Item" not working [adding and editing items not yet supported for local vaults]
OS: Windows10
Version: 6.0.197d
What's wrong:
Pressing the "+ New Item" button below the "search all vaults" input, nothing happen :(
1Password Version: 6.0.197d
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Windows 10
Sync Type: local folder managed by dropbox
Comments
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Hey @moscartong,
Thanks for reaching out.
1Password 6 doesn't yet support item creation or modification for local vaults or those stored in Dropbox.
Adding new items and editing existing ones is currently only possible for 1Password accounts.This feature will be added in a future version.
If you need to edit local vaults, you need 1Password 4. We're sorry about this inconvenience.
Please let us know if we can help you with anything else.
Cheers,
Alex
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@AlexHoffmann Any update as to when 1Password 6 for Windows will allow item creation for vaults stored in Dropbox? You indicated that this would be added in a future version. When?!
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@gregmelnyk: We don't have a release date for you; rather, it will be available when it's ready. We don't want to take any chances with your data — or our own. Thanks for letting us know this is important to you! :)
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Really? I can not save password on app that is for saving my passwords?
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Hi @Toshas,
Thanks for writing in.
1Password 6 for Windows does support creating and saving new passwords but only if you're using the 1Password.com account. If you have no plans to use our 1Password.com service, then we offer 1Password 4 instead which is a stable and mature app with more features available than 1Password 6 at the moment.
1Password 6 is initially designed for 1Password.com service while supporting the local vault files as read-only. We will add support for local vaults in the near future, so that we'd only have one app for both 1Password.com and local vaults customers.
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That's [inappropriate language removed by moderator]. It was working about of weeks ago... I reloaded my Pc and had to reinstall and now it doesn't work again. guys... if you wrote an app in C#, C++,C, JavaScript, or anything similar then integrating with dropbox isn't hard. You cache the file, edit the file, reupload the file using the dropbox API.
Done.
We paid for these apps because we thought you guys were on board with selling software that had free upgrades, no subscription, and cloud support. Avoiding dropbox support to disconnect the free cross platform solution and encourage people to pay for the subscription that has you hosting their vault for them is again [INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE IN CAPS removed by moderator].
I hope people understand what you're doing, bringing new features to the windows app that only supports the subscription and leaving the "stable mature" desktop app to rot out in the cold.
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@claywd: While I appreciate your frustration, we want to keep things friendly on the forums, so please refrain from using abusive language of any kind. Here in the forums we do try to sanitize content as little as possible but on occasion we are forced to make a judgement call. While you may be confused and frustrated at the moment, we still need to keep the forums as friendly as possible for the wide range of people that visit. Be sure to keep that in mind in the future. We're happy to have you here, so long as you can adhere to the guidelines:
Forum guidelines
It was working about of weeks ago... I reloaded my Pc and had to reinstall and now it doesn't work again. guys...
The new 1Password 6 Windows desktop app has never supported writing to local vaults. It will in the future, but we won't be able to add that feature until it's complete. 1Password 4 has always supported local vaults fully though, and will continue to do so.
We paid for these apps because we thought you guys were on board with selling software that had free upgrades, no subscription, and cloud support.
To be clear, you didn't pay for a 1Password 6 license, and we don't sell licenses with free upgrades. We offer free minor updates and the occasional major version for free, but we've never advertised that. A license entitles you to discounted upgrade pricing on a new major version, not free upgrades for life.
I hope people understand what you're doing, bringing new features to the windows app that only supports the subscription and leaving the "stable mature" desktop app to rot out in the cold.
I'm not sure that you understand what we're doing, but maybe I can help with that. First and foremost, if you prefer local vaults and Dropbox, there's an app for that. 1Password 4 supports both, and many 1Password 6 users would love to have all of those features. We're working on that, but it does take time to develop software from scratch, as you'll know from your own experience if you're a developer yourself.
But most importantly, Dropbox really isn't the issue here. 1Password 6 works with Dropbox; but it has only limited support for local vault formats. Obviously this has implications for Dropbox sync as well, but the real issue is that we aren't going to unleash full local vault support until it's ready. This is not because we don't want to support Dropbox as you seem to think. I use Dropbox myself, and I know I'm not alone. We're not that masochistic. And, in fact, that's the crux of the issue: we don't want to put anyone's important data at risk — including our own — by releasing a "stable" feature that isn't. And for data this has to be very high bar indeed.
And while we did ship a pretty big update for 1Password 4 not long ago, it hasn't reached "the end of the line" yet. It sounds like you expect it to continue to be actively developed indefinitely, and I'm sure that won't be the case. Just as 1Password for Mac version 4 stopped receiving updates once it's successor was ready, the same will happen with 1Password for Windows. The situation is a bit different though, because version 6 is not ready to replace version 4 for all 1Password for Windows users. But we're driving hard toward that. In the mean time, we have an app for you whether you purchase a license or a subscription. Looking forward to this being the same app for both in the future though. ;)
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@normz I totally get you. I wrote a few posts just like your's and I'm still waiting on local vault support just like you.
@brenty I am a believer in 'subscription model' in the world of coding. Software is not something that is set in stone. It needs to be polished and it requires continuous support from developers which costs money. Therefore, a steady income is essential in developing software and maintaining it. I am all in if that's where AgileBits is headed. But truth to be told, I do not like what I see with the current 1P6. To be clear it is not the cost I'm complaining about, but the way 1Password made me feel left behind is bothering me more than ever. I always felt left behind whenever I saw one of those iOS and macOS updates from AgileBits Blog and now I can add 1Password.com service on the list of things 'I feel left behind'. I fell in love with AgileBits when it launched 1P4 back in July 2014 and I still do. But I think it's time for some answers to those who ask kindly.
Subscription model doesn't always has to be related to online service. You can charge us local vault users all the same as 1Password.com service users. I can't help but feel that AgileBits might have got this backwards.
Here is something that sounds perfectly okay to me:
'We are releasing 1P6 for windows users ! You will be charged 2.99/month to use the software. By the way where you store your data is entirely up to you'
I think the line above is what many of the customers are familiar with.
flies away ~~~
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@fcar I'm on the same boat as you. I totally understand where you are coming from. But maybe we should give AgileBits chance to explain their current situation. My guess is that they are short handed in Windows department compared to Mac/iOS department therefore taking longer time to do things. That being said, I still think we need some clarification as to where 1P6 is going.
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Hi guys,
I just want to let you know that we will reply to this as soon as possible, we're short-staffed due to the holidays right now.
The first thing I do want to mention is that we will have a much detailed blog post on the Windows development fairly soon.
Happy New Year!
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I wish you all the best of luck in 2017 AgileBits !!
I hope things get a lot smoother :)
Thank you for all the work you have put in so far.
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@dwk, @fcar: Thank you for your kind words, support, and constructive criticism. I hope your new year is off to a good start as well! :chuffed:
I can't say that things have died down much, but I did want to address a few points here to get the ball rolling again. I'm sorry that we dropped it for a bit there. It may or may not have been mistaken for an ornament...
First and foremost, we absolutely have a larger team on Mac and iOS. And I say "team" singular, as this is by virtue of the fact that we're able to share a lot of resources there. That isn't an excuse, but I thought that those who haven't guessed this already may be interested to know it. We're always looking for awesome people in general, but more Windows folks are something we've had an eye out for a while now in particular, and we'll continue to grow our ranks. ;)
And of course 1Password for Mac and iOS are mature codebases, so the new app we're building on Windows doesn't have the benefit of years worth of work. Again, this is probably something which many of you are already aware, but I did want to put that in context. Obviously the user shouldn't have to care about this; and then, again obviously, because the new 1Password 6 Windows desktop app is very much still in its infancy (toddlerhood?), you do care because it's missing features you depend on. That goes the same whether you purchased a license or have subscribed to the 1Password.com service, and it's something we'll continue to work to rectify for all of our awesome Windows customers.
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Let's not beat around the bush. You want people to pay extra for subscriptions for your cloud and are offering a new and conveniently labeled "beta" software product where the working features are only the subscription-based ones, leaving broken and misleading features for local vaults for many months with virtually no visible progress towards fixing them despite (sufficiently vague) promises (*).
@normz: "No visible progress" on local vault support in the new app is 100% fair...and also 100% intentional. We can release something like 1Password mini, which is by no means complete, and add things like categories to it later without impacting data integrity. That really isn't the case with vaults. This is something we fundamentally need to handle differently than anything else I can think of, and release it only when we're confident that we're not going to make ourselves or you regret it.
I totally appreciate the perception, but I hope you'll appreciate that we have pretty good reasons for this, even if it doesn't feel great to you as a user right now.
All this conveniently allows you to continue making promises about upcoming support for local vaults, or to ask us to pay extra for the new subscription service if we want the new v6, or otherwise to go back to 1password v4 if we don't like the status quo ... the latter is both frustrating (since your motivation is clear) and also unfair since we all know that 1password v4 for Windows has always been behind the OSX version in terms of features and stability (browser helper does not unlock app, it does not support multiple browser profiles, it gets slow with usage prompting close/reopen, icon click/double click mishaps etc etc).
Even for us, this is really, really not convenient. As much as we love hearing from you and the rest of our awesome customers, these are not exactly the kinds of conversations we look forward to. I also don't think that you can argue it both ways: that we're pushing you to subscribe, but at the same time encouraging you to stick with 1Password 4. Not having a single Windows app that all of our customers can use also costs us time and money, since there's a lot more development, testing, and support necessary due to the confusion and complexity of multiple apps. I don't say that to elicit pity; we're in this position because of the decisions we've made. But even if you believe that our primary motivator is revenue, I think you'll see that we have a strong financial interest in getting you what you want, for multiple reasons.
I for one don't want to pay for a subscription for your new cloud service but I really want an improved Windows 8 client on par with the OSX one, so I'd much rather you guys be upfront with us: what timeline is there to get either (1) a fully working v6 for local vaults or (2) a fully fixed v4? If there isn't really any, then it's much better to say that now. If you actually plan to drop the license option and local vaults support then don't let your customers wait (your reputation would be taxed).
Here's the kicker: we don't have a Windows app that's on par with 1Password for Mac. We'd very much like to, and we're working on it, but we're not there yet. I can assure you that even once local vault support is complete, we'll still have a ways to go. Over time, there will be fewer people who are missing less-used, more advanced features, to the point where most folks won't notice what 1Password for Windows is still missing, but I'm sure that you and I will. What I'm trying to say is that by not having local vault support right now, you're not missing what you think you are. But we're working hard to make sure that 1Password 6 is compelling to everyone in the future, and that it will work for you whether you choose a subscription or license at that time.
I've been supporting your product and your company, and actually got you several new customers from among my colleagues, but the Windows 7/8 client really hasn't received proper fixes for quite a while and I've been growing frustrated seeing all the reports and promises towards that.
It sounds like you're referring to 1Password 4 here, and if you'll give me a better idea of the specific promises (features? bugfixes?) that you're referring to, I'll be happy to check on their status for you.
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I am a believer in 'subscription model' in the world of coding. Software is not something that is set in stone. It needs to be polished and it requires continuous support from developers which costs money. Therefore, a steady income is essential in developing software and maintaining it. I am all in if that's where AgileBits is headed. But truth to be told, I do not like what I see with the current 1P6. To be clear it is not the cost I'm complaining about, but the way 1Password made me feel left behind is bothering me more than ever. I always felt left behind whenever I saw one of those iOS and macOS updates from AgileBits Blog and now I can add 1Password.com service on the list of things 'I feel left behind'. I fell in love with AgileBits when it launched 1P4 back in July 2014 and I still do. But I think it's time for some answers to those who ask kindly.
@dwk: I wanted to highlight this because it's important. It's something we're very much aware of, and, as counterintuitive as this might sound, it's the reason 1Password 6 doesn't have local vault support (and a lot of other things) right now: we're building a brand new app so that we'll have the flexibility going forward to make 1Password for Windows meet and exceed the high expectations you have based on 1Password for Mac.
We really appreciate your support and kind words, even when coming from a pretty bad place of feeling left behind. I'll be honest with you: it's going to continue to feel that way since we have a lot of work to do (as you well know), and the answers we can give in the short term will almost certainly be unsatisfying since the real answer you're looking for is a Windows app that makes you feel confident you made the right decision when choosing 1Password. I'm really sorry that this isn't something we can offer you today, but hopefully I can at least offer some insights into where we're headed, and we'll continue to work to back that up with updates as well.
I know it doesn't do you much good now, but just think of your future self. That sounds kinda new-agey or something, but stick with me for a minute. When you see there's a new version, and then notice that there's no local vault update in the release notes, just ignore that for a minute and read the rest. Almost everything else there will benefit you down the road when 1Password 6 gets full local vault support. When that day comes, you'll be glad that those things are there for you too.
Subscription model doesn't always has to be related to online service. You can charge us local vault users all the same as 1Password.com service users. I can't help but feel that AgileBits might have got this backwards.
That's an excellent point, and it's something I suggest from time to time, with the caveat that doing this foregoes some of the greatest benefits of the subscription service. But if some people prefer to use 1Password this way, that's their prerogative.
Here is something that sounds perfectly okay to me:
'We are releasing 1P6 for windows users ! You will be charged 2.99/month to use the software. By the way where you store your data is entirely up to you'If that's what we wanted to do, we could have already. I mean, technically, that will be an option regardless. But frankly while you may be perfectly happy paying for a subscription, not everyone feels that way. Many people still prefer to purchase a standalone license, and those people are our (existing or potential) customers too. That may sound silly right now, given that the new 1Password 6 Windows desktop app doesn't yet support local vaults, but we're committed to having support for that for those who prefer a license too. If we weren't, we could save ourselves a lot of work, and, as you and others have pointed out, save you a lot of frustration too by just coming out and saying it.
We don't actually promise a lot of things (especially future features/versions), but when we do it's usually something that's pretty important to us. Local vaults are something we've come out and said we're doing. I'm just sorry that it's taking longer than any of us would like. But we recognize how important it is to a lot of people, and how important it is that we get it right.
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I am adding to normz's comment above. I can see it really clearly that the case is that the business model has changed, you are now trying to get people so frustrated that they have no option but to move to a subscription service.
@fcar: That's definitely not what we're trying to do, and I can't imagine (based on your comments) that the current situation has inspired you to give us more money. I know what you mean, but I think that if we follow this to its logical conclusion, we just end up with a lot of pissed off former customers. And that doesn't make 1Password better for anyone. :(
You know what would be the right thing to do? Offer a free subscription to all users of 1Password for Windows until you release v6 with read and write support for local vaults. That is the right thing to do.
That's also definitely not the right thing to do. I know you'd appreciate it, and frankly doing so would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside, but that's no way to run a sustainable business. That may seem like an absurd thing for me to say since you may not care about that in the short term, but in the long term you would when development, testing, and support of 1Password ceases, and you're left scrambling to find an alternative.
Now, you may be seeking an alternative now anyway, and while that isn't what we want, that's understandable. The difference is that you're not stuck in an intractable situation completely outside of your control right now. You at least have a choice. You don't if we close up shop. Then you have to go elsewhere. We've made a difficult decision to sacrifice some happiness (for al involved) in the short term so that we'll all be better off in the long term: whether you choose a license or subscription once 1Password 6 is mature, we'll have a modern app to offer you with the flexibility to grow with you, the Windows platform, and 1Password overall.
I realize that "delayed gratification" is, by definition, not a satisfying strategy in the present, but
1Password 4 is broken. It prompts me to save twice.
This is a rare bug in the 1Password browser extension and affect 1Password 6 as well. The extension team is working on a fix for this, but I'm sorry for the frustration this is causing you in the mean time. Fortunately, since that shouldn't require an app update, you should get that automatically in your browser once it's available.
The save window appears about 10 seconds after I click submit, and it has caused me headaches before because if I'm typing and hit the space bar, then whatever button was selected will be pressed without it being my intention. The browser helper is slow and awful to use, if you expand the logins category it takes like 40 seconds to unlock. I am using a Core i7 Extreme Edition processor (5960X) with 64GB of DDR4 RAM and a Samsung 950 Pro NVMe SSD and 1Password 4 is the only app that works slowly in my machine. 1Password 6 is much faster and responsive but I have to pay a subscription to use it!? I mean, how ridiculous is that!?
Indeed, 1Password 4 is a mature app, but its older codebase and frameworks don't scale well with modern PCs...so in fact that's why 1Password 6 doesn't work with local vaults yet: if we reused code (so you could use it without a subscription immediately), you'd be having the same performances issues there. I know this isn't going to be as satisfying an answer as if I could say "local vault support is available in 1Password 6" today, but it should at least give you some insight into why we're doing this, and also hope that you'll be able to enjoy a smoother 1Password experience on your PC in the future.
I paid for the app in good faith and all I expected is for it to work like other apps in my computer, not something from the 90s that feels like it's running from a floppy disk on a 386 with 10MB of RAM. Seriously, if you can't release v6 now with editing features for local vaults but subscription is working, then give access to a temporary subscription with a grace period for your users to migrate back to local vaults once you release the fully-working version 6 for Windows.
To be fair, you have the app that you paid for, probably with some additional features that were added since then, depending on when you purchased. It isn't as if we've gone back and made it slower to try to annoy you into giving us more money for a subscription. We hate nagware too. But you're absolutely right that 1Password 4 isn't as efficient as we'd like it to be. 1Password 6 is the answer to that, and I'm sorry that it isn't feature complete yet. You can, however, use the subscription service on a trial basis to test drive it. But no matter what, we're working hard to add full local vault support (as well as many other features).
It really seems unprofessional. I have a MacBook Pro too, and I see almost daily beta updates from 1Password on it, but my Windows version seldom shows updates at all. It's really disgusting to treat your customers like this. I use your app since version 2 on the Mac, I honestly feel burned and cheated. Imagine how much data I have stored since version 2, this is the only reason why I don't move to another service that treats their customers with more respect. I've had to endure your lack of care for Android when I moved to that platform in 2012, only recently your Android app became usable, before it was read-only and looked horrible apart from being slow.
I'm really sorry you feel that way, and that it's our fault. Granted, on the Mac side of things we also get complaints of too many updates, so I'm not sure we're striking the best balance there either. But feeling neglected sucks. Short term, it's probably going to continue to feel that way. That's not because we don't care, but because we needed to build a new app so that we can make 1Password for Windows all that it should be. There just isn't any way around that.
Rather than get further off topic at hand, please shoot us an email at support@agilebits.com and link your Support ID here so we can help with any issues you're having with 1Password 4, or setting up a 1Password.com Account if you want to give that a shot. We're here for you!
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I am adding to normz's comment above. I can see it really clearly that the case is that the business model has changed, you are now trying to get people so frustrated that they have no option but to move to a subscription service.
@fcar: That's definitely not what we're trying to do, and I can't imagine (based on your comments) that the current situation has inspired you to give us more money. I know what you mean, but I think that if we follow this to its logical conclusion, we just end up with a lot of pissed off former customers. And that doesn't make 1Password better for anyone. :(
You know what would be the right thing to do? Offer a free subscription to all users of 1Password for Windows until you release v6 with read and write support for local vaults. That is the right thing to do.
That's also definitely not the right thing to do. I know you'd appreciate it, and frankly doing so would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside, but that's no way to run a sustainable business. That may seem like an absurd thing for me to say since you may not care about that in the short term, but in the long term you would when development, testing, and support of 1Password ceases, and you're left scrambling to find an alternative.
Now, you may be seeking an alternative now anyway, and while that isn't what we want, that's understandable. The difference is that you're not stuck in an intractable situation completely outside of your control right now. You at least have a choice. You don't if we close up shop. Then you have to go elsewhere. We've made a difficult decision to sacrifice some happiness (for al involved) in the short term so that we'll all be better off in the long term: whether you choose a license or subscription once 1Password 6 is mature, we'll have a modern app to offer you with the flexibility to grow with you, the Windows platform, and 1Password overall.
I realize that "delayed gratification" is, by definition, not a satisfying strategy in the present, but
1Password 4 is broken. It prompts me to save twice.
This is a rare bug in the 1Password browser extension and affect 1Password 6 as well. The extension team is working on a fix for this, but I'm sorry for the frustration this is causing you in the mean time. Fortunately, since that shouldn't require an app update, you should get that automatically in your browser once it's available.
The save window appears about 10 seconds after I click submit, and it has caused me headaches before because if I'm typing and hit the space bar, then whatever button was selected will be pressed without it being my intention. The browser helper is slow and awful to use, if you expand the logins category it takes like 40 seconds to unlock. I am using a Core i7 Extreme Edition processor (5960X) with 64GB of DDR4 RAM and a Samsung 950 Pro NVMe SSD and 1Password 4 is the only app that works slowly in my machine. 1Password 6 is much faster and responsive but I have to pay a subscription to use it!? I mean, how ridiculous is that!?
Indeed, 1Password 4 is a mature app, but its older codebase and frameworks don't scale well with modern PCs...so in fact that's why 1Password 6 doesn't work with local vaults yet: if we reused code (so you could use it without a subscription immediately), you'd be having the same performances issues there. I know this isn't going to be as satisfying an answer as if I could say "local vault support is available in 1Password 6" today, but it should at least give you some insight into why we're doing this, and also hope that you'll be able to enjoy a smoother 1Password experience on your PC in the future.
I paid for the app in good faith and all I expected is for it to work like other apps in my computer, not something from the 90s that feels like it's running from a floppy disk on a 386 with 10MB of RAM. Seriously, if you can't release v6 now with editing features for local vaults but subscription is working, then give access to a temporary subscription with a grace period for your users to migrate back to local vaults once you release the fully-working version 6 for Windows.
To be fair, you have the app that you paid for, probably with some additional features that were added since then, depending on when you purchased. It isn't as if we've gone back and made it slower to try to annoy you into giving us more money for a subscription. We hate nagware too. But you're absolutely right that 1Password 4 isn't as efficient as we'd like it to be. 1Password 6 is the answer to that, and I'm sorry that it isn't feature complete yet. You can, however, use the subscription service on a trial basis to test drive it. But no matter what, we're working hard to add full local vault support (as well as many other features).
It really seems unprofessional. I have a MacBook Pro too, and I see almost daily beta updates from 1Password on it, but my Windows version seldom shows updates at all. It's really disgusting to treat your customers like this. I use your app since version 2 on the Mac, I honestly feel burned and cheated. Imagine how much data I have stored since version 2, this is the only reason why I don't move to another service that treats their customers with more respect. I've had to endure your lack of care for Android when I moved to that platform in 2012, only recently your Android app became usable, before it was read-only and looked horrible apart from being slow.
I'm really sorry you feel that way, and that it's our fault. Granted, on the Mac side of things we also get complaints of too many updates, so I'm not sure we're striking the best balance there either. But feeling neglected sucks. Short term, it's probably going to continue to feel that way. That's not because we don't care, but because we needed to build a new app so that we can make 1Password for Windows all that it should be. There just isn't any way around that.
Rather than get further off topic at hand, please shoot us an email at support@agilebits.com and link your Support ID here so we can help with any issues you're having with 1Password 4, or setting up a 1Password.com Account if you want to give that a shot. We're here for you!
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Hi @fcar,
. It's just frustrating to see almost daily beta updates for the Mac but none for Windows. To be fair, it's not "none" but they are so far spaced in time that it feels like you guys just aren't doing anything (I'm sure that's not the case but it feels that way when you're running the app on Mac and Windows and you're noticing the difference).
We do understand that and that is true. We are shipping less public beta updates on Windows compared to Mac, however, that doesn't usually mean we're working less on Windows. On Windows right now, we're shipping larger than usual beta updates that include more changes in one beta update, whereas the larger macOS/iOS team are shipping smaller list of changes but frequent beta updates. Each team have a different development process, different testing, and resources. Right now, our Windows team is working on a young codebase that has to go under a lot of internal testing in each update and as the result, the beta updates tend to be more packed. In fact, the last few versions we've shipped only had one beta update and our beta team didn't find any issues. The macOS/iOS team has a unified codebase that's very mature and can afford to ship smaller updates, we aren't at that stage yet. Right now, internally for Windows, we've shipped 10 updates already, almost every other days but we're not yet at that stage where we're opening them up to the public. There are a few showstoppers we must fix before we can even ship the first beta.
But why not release more frequent, perhaps even daily beta updates? People have a choice, if they're installing a beta they know the risks. Put a big-ass red message in bold stating that they're installing a beta that can lead to data loss.
That's something we can do once the codebase is mature, it's why macOS/iOS teams are doing it, we weren't always shipping daily beta updates for these platforms either, in fact, it used to be weekly, before that, bi-weekly and then monthly. It's not about the risk or data loss, we're simply making far more larger changes than what other teams are doing and as the result, we're doing far more intensive testings, which tends to have more stable updates.
Just to present a bigger picture of what's going on:
Young codebase: making one change can impact the rest of the subsystems that is not yet isolated or modular, thus more testing and refactoring to prevent it from doing so in the future. So, one change can result into multiple changes and each change requires more testing. Thus, it feels like a huge lull in public beta schedule but internally, it is going through heavy development and testing daily.
Mature codebase: one change, it goes through automated unit testings, a quick internal testing and it's ready to ship to beta team within hours. This is where we want to go for Windows but this isn't something that can be done quickly, it takes time.
I'm just really really feeling burned that you guys are calling the macOS version your "flagship". It doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to show preference to one platform if you're multi-platform.
I'm sorry you feel that way but we're not going to be dishonest by saying it isn't our flagship platform, as this is part of our history, as AgileBits was originally a Mac shop for many years. However, we can change the future and we're trying to go cross-platform but it is not something that's easy to do for a small private company that isn't equal in platform users and teams, our largest market share continues to be the iOS/Mac users and we cannot neglect them just as we cannot neglect Windows and Android. We do not want and are not focusing on just one platform, we will continue to improve our cross-platform support. Without this, 1Password.com service wouldn't be worth the huge investment we're made into it. We have far more incentives to fix this now and not be late with it. This isn't to say we're going to support 1Password.com only, I just want to make this clear, this benefits both local vaults and 1Password.com service.
how about diverting some development to Windows for a while to speed things up and put it up to the same level?
That's not it works, you can't divert existing developers to Windows and expect things to work. None of our developers that are not on Windows have any experience working with Windows, if we force them to work on Windows, it would cause a massive drain on our small team that it would result into no development. That's like asking Apple to put their developers on Windows and bring over their apps to Windows, it won't speed anything up and in fact, will show things down resulting into a substandard experience. After all, Safari and iTunes on Windows aren't... exactly great to use and Apple is 100000x the size of us.
The right solution is to get more Windows developers, which we did a few years ago.
We actually had two separate internal projects before this current 1Password 6 program to improve the current 1Password 4 codebase on Windows quickly but it didn't work out, which is why there was a long lull in development on Windows. Eventually, we've settled on a new codebase instead, which really started going last year in the late Spring. We also had a much larger Windows team at this point last year, more than so in our history but we've went down in size again due to unforeseen events. We're working on expanding our Windows team again and will have more to share soon.
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Hi @fcar,
I absolutely agree, we need to do a better job keeping you guys informed and we actually love that you guys are so passionate about this, we do know you guys are actually coming from love and huge desire to see us improve 1Password that you can be proud of using dozens of time per day. It is not our intentions to stay quiet, it's just that time flies by really fast when we're in this intense focused mode to improve 1Password and we've been in this mode for a long time, it sometimes slip by that we need to come out and share some news. It is not acceptable that our customers have to remind us to step out but we'll do a better job.
I'll try to nudge our team to do more blog posts on Windows and Android for sure. We just did a small Windows post earlier this week to talk about the Intel SGX support in 1Password we've been working on with Intel. This wasn't the blog post that I was referring to earlier in this thread, we have another one planned but no ETA yet, we're currently in the intense focus mode on 1Password 6.3 with finishing up this SGX support, improved sync subsystem that will eliminate all of the sync errors that we've been seeing from our customers, better master password sync support, and more to come soon.
By the way, our team do have a huge desire to exceed the macOS version of 1Password. Some of our Mac folks actually expressed desires to switch back to Windows because of this. :smile:
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Wow, lots of comments here, and lots of food for thought.
I feel compelled to respond as I see things on the Windows side, and give my point of view. My view doesn't completely align with some of the posters here.
As a long-time 1Password user (I, too, have brought AgileBits many new customers), I've been amazed at the generosity of AgileBits. As I mentioned in a different post, I don't fully understand how they could maintain their business on the pittance of license fees they were collecting (a major version is active for a LONG time, and then they actually gave free upgrades for one of the versions to the next major version - 1Password5, maybe, from 4). I actually started to buy licenses I didn't strictly need because I felt, given how critical 1Password is to my daily workflow, that they needed more cash from me. I've NEVER done that with any other product. AgileBits has been tremendously generous to long-time 1Password users, nobody can deny that.
The Windows product has always been weak. But it was what it was. AgileBits was primarily a Mac-based company, and 1Password on the Mac was obviously their flagship product (well, iOS too). As I've mentioned elsewhere, 1Password on the Mac is absolutely fantastic ("a piece of art" is how I referred to it in other posts). I can't use curse words here, so suffice to say that the Mac version of 1Password is [expletive left out] amazing.
I needed Windows support, so I was happy it was there at all. Did I wish it was better? Of course I did. But, most importantly: Did it get the job done? Yeah, mostly (although occasionally I needed to make changes on the Mac version because the Windows version couldn't do what I needed). I understood the priorities of the company, and I was still thrilled with their product overall. The Mac product lets me look beyond a lot of warts in the Windows product.
1Password.com, their online service, comes along. I liked it immediately because it included the apps everywhere, and while Dropbox syncing was okay with me at the time, the license model didn't make me feel like I was robbing AgileBits blind. :smile: I paid as an early adopter (again, at discount - AgileBits is VERY generous to us, folks). BUT: I actually couldn't use it for a while because 1Password v4 (Windows) didn't support it! I anxiously awaited 1Password v6's release. It was finally available (in very raw BETA form) in the summer. I tried it, I immediately logged 6 show-stopper bugs for me, and I was forced to abandon it. Any one of the bugs was bad enough to be a show-stopper for me, and all 6 told me it was going to be a while. Imagine how thrilled I was to be paying for a shiny new cloud service but not be able to use it due to mandatory Windows support ...
A few months pass (3-4, I think), and I tried 1Password v6 on Windows again. The improvements are staggering. Is it a beautiful app? No, it's not. But in just a few months, it's improved enough where it gets the job done (assuming, obviously, that you are using their cloud service). So, finally, for the first time in perhaps 6 months, I can actually use the cloud service I've been paying for. And the cloud service is pretty nice for families. I'm actually using capabilities in the cloud service for sharing that wasn't possible in Dropbox.
The improvements, from the summer, in 1Password v6 for Windows, were amazing. I use it daily. Is it a piece of art, like on the Mac? Nope, not even close. It needs a lot of work. BUT: If you're using their cloud service, it's pretty stable and reliable. Once or twice I hit things where it can't edit a complex entry properly, but now I have 1Password.com that can, so it's a backup. The Windows product is not perfect, but it's a massive improvement, and I see significant leaps from BETA release to BETA release. It's coming along.
I believe that the poor Windows support has cost AgileBits some business. I recommend 1Password all the time, and it's not uncommon for Windows users to look at it and say "meh", moving on to alternatives. Mac users love it, of course. But Windows isn't in the same state. To some degree, I think this is a business decision that AgileBits has made, at least in the past. Perhaps not a decision as such, but the state of the product led to loss of business for Windows-centric users, no question.
For the first time, when I look at the massive leap from the summer to today in 1Password v6 for Windows, I can envision something that might actually be a joy to use on Windows. AgileBits says that's where they want to be. I do software development myself, so I'm fully aware of how long a road they have, and how long they will take to get there. But the company says they're committed to it, and that's a message that Windows users have never had before. I'm thrilled to hear it.
You can behave as you wish. From where I sit, AgileBits is striving to meet their customer demands, AgileBits is very generous with long-time users of their product, AgileBits gives awesome support for their products, and AgileBits generally keeps us informed of where they're going, long term, both here in the forums in via blog posts. AgileBits sets a bar that the vast majority of companies that I buy from can't meet.
That's the way I see it.
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@fcar: Thanks so much for the kind words and encouragement. What you said about openness and honesty really resonates, as we love it when we can talk about things openly, and honesty is one of our core values...but often these are unfortunately at odds. After all, if we're too open, we'll tell you things like "local vaults are 80% done", which to a lot of people will sound like "next week". But, as I'm sure you know, often the last 1-10% is 80% of the work! So then we look (and perhaps feel) like liars, our customers believe we've misled them, and nobody is happy. So we'll do our best to continue to keep the lines of communication open, but there are also a lot of other folks out there who are waiting to hear back from us. :blush:
@jeffc: I think that while we're all coming at this from different directions, we all love 1Password because of its strength and in spite of its flaws, and want to know that it's going to continue to get better and be there for us when we need it. Thanks for your faith in us, especially with regard to our nascent Windows app. We'll keep working to reward it with each new update. :)
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