Bought 1Password for Windows now, mistake?
Hi,
I bought 1Password for Windows now and noticed that it gave me a 1Password 4 for Windows license. Didn't realize 1P6 Win was still in beta. The store just said "1Password for Mac and Windows" without any version info so I assumed 1P6 Win had been released already.
I sincerely hope that the Windows key I bought now will also work in 1Password 6 for Windows when it's released? I am a perpetual license & local vault kinda guy. :)
...Did I make a mistake by buying 1Password for Windows now, before 1PW6 for Win is out?
1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided
Comments
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Hi, I'm not an employee just a long time 1Password user dating from the 1.0 days. I've recently shifted to the subscription service because I've got 4 devices to manage on different operating systems, and I'm finding the subscription service easier. I read on this pages from time to time about people buying a non-subscription license off of the Apple Store for IoS, but I've not seen an accidental purchase of 1Password 4 for Windows in a while. Where did you find 1Password 4 for Windows for sale? I'm sure it is still out there somewhere, but it seems well hidden. Oh, just found it on the downloads page. I've seen rebates issued to people who accidentally bought something but wanted something else. I'm sure they'll take care of you.
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@Temptin: First and foremost, I'm really sorry for the confusion here! It's an exciting time for 1Password on Windows...but often excitement means things are less clear and simple than we'd like them to be.
First and foremost, if you bought 1Password 4 because you prefer to use local vaults, and sync your data (or not) yourself, you've made the right decision. 1Password 6 does not have full support for local vaults. It's focused on 1Password Accounts since it isn't possible for 1Password 4 to do so.
While the 1Password subscription service is a great deal and a huge benefit for folks who don't want to manage licenses or sync configurations, given that 1Password 4 seems to meet your needs and requirements, I'd stick with that. But be sure to let me know if you have any other questions. :)
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@brenty I was under a really strong impression that 1Password was just a single product now.
Why? Well:
1:
https://agilebits.com/store
"1Password: A license for all your OS X and Windows desktops."
(No version mentioned anywhere there. And no indication that it's a split-license for two separate v6 Mac and v4 Windows versions.)2:
After seeing the new "1Password" entry in the store, with the subtitle "A license for all your OS X and Windows desktops", I emailed support and said something like "I see that 1Password has been merged and uses the same single license for both Mac and Windows nowadays, any way to crossgrade to the Windows edition?", and instead of support telling me that Windows was still on v4, he said "yes, it's just a single license now but people who purchased before March of 2016 will have to pay for the new unified license", and he offered me a crossgrade discount.
3:
During the checkout process, the product was still just referred to as "1Password". No version. No OS mentions.
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I've seen all the beta testing on this forum, and thought that since the store no longer sold the Mac/Windows versions separately (since March of 2016?), that you've finally released 1P6 for Windows. I also thought that you've gotten rid of the version number, and are just calling it "1Password" now. (Something you've long been working towards on the Mac side, by allowing v4 licenses to register v5 and v6 and having the About License window saying "License: 1Password for Mac").
So wait... are you telling me that 1P6 for Windows will be subscription-based and never have a perpetual license option, and that it will not have local perpetual vaults? That's a complete 180 degree turn from your roots as a native, local password manager... This is especially strange, considering that 1P6 for Mac is still perpetual and by far the best password manager for Mac.
If 1P6Win will only be subscription-based, then I'll have to demand a refund since I was severely mislead by everything above. As we all know, 1P4 for Windows is super old, clunky and awful. That GUI. Ugh... And 1P4Win is basically discontinued. I would never have bought 1P4Win on purpose.
If, however, 1P6 for Windows will have a perpetual license option, and will work with the key I bought yesterday, and will support local Dropbox vaults, then everything is as I was lead to believe it was, and I'll keep the Windows version.
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Paging @MikeT about another thread:
berns asked: "I want to store my data locally and not on the cloud. how can I check this? where do I deactivate cloud storage?"
@MikeT answered: "You'd want to stick with the stable 1Password 4 for Windows version.
1Password 6 Beta is being built with 1Password.com service in mind first and local vault files later down the line. While it has support for local folder sync, you can't yet create new local vaults nor modify the content for existing vault files."
What's he talking about here? He says it's being built for the "1Password.com service" first but will add local vault files later down the line. Does that mean 1P6 for Windows will have a perpetual, local license option too?
If not, I've been totally bamboozled and will demand a refund. :)
(Don't let my smiley confuse you about how annoyed I am at losing 2 hours of my life on this crap.)0 -
This is old, but seems to suggest there will never be a non-subscription 1P6 for Windows:
https://blog.agilebits.com/2016/06/02/1password-6-beta-for-windows-opens-the-door-to-1password-families-and-1password-teams/Dave Teare replied in one of the comments: "To answer your question about payments, 1Password 6 for Windows only supports our 1Password Teams and 1Password Families subscription services. Everyone subscribed will get 1Password 6 for Windows for free and will receive all updates and upgrades for free as well."
That's really not nice towards your existing 1P4 for Windows users by not giving them any perpetual options... I am lucky I primarily use a Mac and don't completely need a Windows version of 1Password.
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Here's a little checklist for someone to pick up. I've wasted enough time on this misleading rabbit hole:
- If you can fully guarantee that 1P6 for Windows will get a perpetual license option and that the license I bought yesterday will work for it, we're all happy and you can stop reading here. That would be brilliant, and would match the Mac version's licensing options (and what we're used to in the past on Windows as well).
- If the perpetual Windows license I was lead to buy will forever just be the clunky, outdated "1Password 4 for Windows", then do the following:
- Look at ticket "[#BLF-39262-972] License on Windows?", and you'll see how the entire discussion acted like the newest 1Password was now a single, unified product for both Windows and Mac.
- Look for my email address in that ticket. That is my AgileBits account name.
- Refund order "7UJ198194U329043V (AgileBits)" fully.
- And for good measure: Please edit your web store to make it clear we're buying 1Password 4 for Windows + 1Password 6 for Mac, instead of calling it the very misleading "1Password: A license for all your OS X and Windows desktops" throughout the whole ordering and checkout process. Because that was the whole reason for this waste of time. Only at the completion of the purchase did it ever show me that I got separate 1P6 for Mac and 1P4 for Windows keys. One little snippet in the store, the words "1Password 4 for Windows", could have avoided this whole mess, this whole thread, and me losing two or more hours of my life.
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Well, as I was closing down tabs, something gave me some hope:
Sam asked: "Will I get free update to 1password 6 if I buy now? I dont want to spend now and again spend 50% to upgrade later. thx"
Dave Teare replied: "Hi Sam,
The initial launch of 1Password 6 in August will be focused on 1Password Families and 1Password Teams users. Both these subscriptions include the apps for all platforms as well as free upgrades.
++dave;"
First of all, I love the "++dave;" code and it made me laugh. Now I remember why I like AgileBits.
But yeah, he seems to say that it will release for 1Password.com service users at first ("the initial launch" as he put it), but that it WILL get a perpetual license option with local vaults later.
Another tab gives more hope:
https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/317234/#Comment_317234@khad said that "You can use 1Password 6 without a family subscription. It supports the OPVault format. But since it is still in beta, there are some features that haven't been implemented yet."
If you guys can clarify all of this and it turns out that there will be a perpetual license (and you can guarantee that I will get it with the purchase I made today which I thought was already 1P6, or via a special exception by reminding you guys later), then I will happily keep 1Password for Windows.
I really, really want the Windows version of 6, because it is the closest thing to what I love on the Mac. There is no other password manager that's as good as 1Password 6 for Mac, on any platform, and the fact that it looked like 6 for Windows was out and had been merged into a unified product is what made me buy the crossgrade!
Or, as some blog comment put it: "I hope that 1Password 6 for Windows is as good as the Mac version. My wife complains about 1Password 4 on her Windows laptop. However, when she uses 6 on our Mac, she comments “This is why you love this program”."
And yes, as much as I can "love" a program, I absolutely love 1Password 6 for Mac too. It's a local, perfectly encrypted, beautifully designed database for all my hundreds of perpetual (hehe) licenses and my hundreds of logins. That is what I want to see on Windows too, and the 1Password 6 for Windows design is beautiful. It's really getting there.
With all of these quoted hints that there'll be a perpetual Windows version too, I'm hoping there will finally be a clear promise of perpetual licenses on the Windows side of the fence too... if so, I'd be really happy to keep the license I bought. I mean, I wouldn't have bought - what I thought was 1P6 for Windows - if I hadn't loved 1Password. I'm a big fan and have been a customer since 2010.
If not, well, you have the refund checklist above. ;)
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@Temptin: Thanks for foll...wow. You're quite the typist! I'll do my best to address your points here. :dizzy:
"1Password: A license for all your OS X and Windows desktops." (No version mentioned anywhere there. And no indication that it's a split-license for two separate v6 Mac and v4 Windows versions.)
It's a single purchase for both, which gives you the current version on each platform, for you to use on all of your computers in perpetuity. We don't sell licenses for future products.
Since we introduced 1Password for Windows back in 2010, we've always offered a bundle for folks who wanted both that and 1Password for Mac. The single desktop license we sell now is identical to that. We always sell the current version of our software, not past or future releases. Over the years it became clear that when most people purchased a 1Password license, they expected to be able to use it on all of their computers — Mac and PC — so we've changed things to reflect that. So anyone purchasing that license now, they're getting the same thing that was available previously as the "Mac + Windows Bundle". Anyone purchasing only the Mac or Windows version prior to that can get a discount through the AgileBits Store, as it sounds like you did.
So wait... are you telling me that 1P6 for Windows will be subscription-based and never have a perpetual license option, and that it will not have local perpetual vaults?
No. We will be adding full local vault support to the new 1Password Windows desktop app in the future. We're simply focused on supporting 1Password Accounts first because otherwise there is no 1Password app on Windows which supports 1Password Accounts. We already have a mature 1Password Windows app which supports local vaults fully. And since we can't reasonably do everything we'd like to at once, we've prioritized development accordingly.
If, however, 1P6 for Windows will have a perpetual license option, and will work with the key I bought yesterday, and will support local Dropbox vaults, then everything is as I was lead to believe it was, and I'll keep the Windows version.
We're not to the point where we're selling the new 1Password Windows desktop app, so I can't say for certain. It may be a paid upgrade when it's finished. It's simply to early to say, since it doesn't even have full support for local vaults currently. We won't be offering a license for it until it does.
If you don't want to use 1Password 4, don't. And certainly don't pay for it! I don't pay for software I don't like and don't use either. I didn't realize you hated it so much, so I recommended it based on your criteria. I didn't mean to offend. You can use 1Password 6 for free at this stage after all, and it sounds like that's your preference. When we're ready to sell licenses for the new app, you'll know if it's something you want to invest in. So if 1Password 4 isn't something you want to invest in right now, just reply to the earlier email exchange and we'll get you taken care of.
And yes, as much as I can "love" a program, I absolutely love 1Password 6 for Mac too. It's a local, perfectly encrypted, beautifully designed database for all my hundreds of perpetual (hehe) licenses and my hundreds of logins. That is what I want to see on Windows too, and the 1Password 6 for Windows design is beautiful. It's really getting there.
Thank you so much for the encouragement! We're working hard to make that happen. :chuffed:
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@brenty , I pleased to read that export from 1P6WD* is planned. I can backup now from my Android devices if I need to according to https://support.1password.com/export/ , but its much more convenient to do such administrative work from my Windows machine. (I don't have a Mac, so that export path doesn't really help me.)
- 1P6WD: 1Password 6 for Windows Desktop
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@nhDOBsfc: Agree. While more and of folks nowadays prefer to use mobile devices, I'm with you: I'm much more productive on my computer. I'm sorry that it's a bit of a hassle currently, even if that is a workaround. We definitely want to have full export support in the new app. :)
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@brenty Hehe. About the length... I was quoting a lot of people, and I couldn't edit old posts (the 1 hour edit limit) to cut down the length.
We will be adding full local vault support to the new 1Password Windows desktop app in the future. We're simply focused on supporting 1Password Accounts first because otherwise there is no 1Password app on Windows which supports 1Password Accounts.
We're not to the point where we're selling the new 1Password Windows desktop app, so I can't say for certain. It may be a paid upgrade when it's finished. It's simply to early to say, since it doesn't even have full support for local vaults currently. We won't be offering a license for it until it does.
Thanks for covering everything. I can understand wanting to be vague and not promise that you will ever sell a perpetual version, just in case you decide that you only want 1password.com customers. That would of course be a big mistake. Sell 1password.com's merits on extra features (like instant family vault sharing, always-online backups, web access to your passwords, etc), not on a ransom note of "use our subscription service or forget about having the latest 1Password for Windows!". You have a great service, and there is no reason to ever discontinue perpetual licenses. They're very different beasts. A local license is not as slick, there's no web access for one! But it's what I need due to regulations. I can't use your cloud.
So... if I understood it all, this is the AgileBits Promise(TM):
- Finish 1Password 6 for Windows for 1Password.com (Teams/Family) customers. So that they have a client for that service. This is the highest priority for obvious reasons, and it's getting close to done.
- Then, when the "subscription" version is stable, add full support for local vaults and dropbox sync (I've seen that you're doing some work on this already, so it definitely seems like it's going to happen).
- Finally, release v6 for Windows as a perpetual license, and determine the paid upgrade paths (such as price, grace period, etc).
If I've understood the points above correctly, then this is perfect. Because perpetual is the way to go for compliance with anti-cloud regulations. Meanwhile, the cloud version will always have customers because it brings features like vault sharing, backups and web access to your passwords. So please never discontinue the perpetual license version. Instead, make the 1password.com service stand out on its own. You're doing a great job with that already!
PS: Yes... 1Password 6 for Windows is beautiful. It's getting close to matching the Mac version. I love you guys.
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Indeed. I think that's a fair summary. And, cloud or not, we love you too! We couldn't do what we do without the support of you and the rest of our awesome customers. Thank you! :love:
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Excellent news. Thank you too. :love:
PS: Clouds can be dangerous things, watch this Indian government official's video to learn more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnxrJiS5uKU0 -
Hi @Temptin,
I need to make sure we make this absolutely clear because you added AgileBits Promise(TM) in your summary; we are not making any promises, all of our plans are subject to change. Your summary is exactly what we're planning as Brenty mentioned but it is not a confirmed/promised one. Heck, some of us loves the idea of making 1Password.com self-hosted too (running on your own local server) but that's far down the line.
As for the video, I like the last second of the video about the facts. Cloud is just another name for third-party hosted servers in a different location, what he was talking about is that we can't verify/confirm what's going on in the third party facilities. In our instance, we hold the keys to our code and you own the keys to your encrypted data stored on the servers. The keys are never transmitted to the servers, data is pushed to your local device first before you can decrypt it.
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Hi @MikeT! Yeah, trusting clouds means trusting that your data won't become corrupt, lost or snooped online. The guy on the video really doesn't understand what he's talking about, though. He adorably thinks cloud data is destroyed when it rains, and that everyone must be physically under the same cloud in the sky to get access to the same data. He also thought smartphone data leaks into the battery and can be snooped after selling your old phone. Funny. It boggles the mind how he became elected.
Anyway, I like that your cloud setup does the decryption locally. Nice.
I need to make sure we make this absolutely clear because you added AgileBits Promise(TM) in your summary; we are not making any promises, all of our plans are subject to change. Your summary is exactly what we're planning as Brenty mentioned but it is not a confirmed/promised one.
Yeah, it has been hard for people to get a straight answer about this, but I am happy to hear multiple confirmations that your roadmap is to release a perpetual version after the cloud version is stable.
It makes no sense to drop perpetual licenses. Just make 1password.com great instead, and it will sell based on its own awesome merits that go way beyond what a local vault offers. For instance, the massive feature of being able to check a password via the web at 1password.com instead of installing an app.
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Hi @Temptin,
Exactly, we need to let people choose whatever they want based on what it can offer them, not how we want them to use 1Password. Unfortunately, because of how rough 1Password 6 Beta is right now, it is not giving them an idea of what it can be, both 1Password.com and local vaults. Every change we make to 1Password 6 Beta benefits both, even though it doesn't seem like it right now.
The main reason we haven't enabled write support for local vaults is because the data structure is radically more complex for local vaults compared to 1Password.com. 1Password.com servers can tell clients how the data structure is rendered, keep them all updated as to data changes as opposed to local vaults with 8+ year worth of format changes, two different
.agilekeychain/.opvaultformats with different crypto standards and so on, it takes more time to add than it does compared to 1Password.com.0 -
Exactly, we need to let people choose whatever they want based on what it can offer them, not how we want them to use 1Password.
Love it. The signs of a company that really respects the personal preferences of all of their customers. :love: (Unlike the recently deceased "Smile" Text Expander product, which lost all of its customers when it tried to force everyone to subscription-only, and then a month after the mass exodus they tried to do damage control too late, by resuming sales of the outdated perpetual version alongside the cloud version. But by that point, everyone had already moved to the perpetual, and frankly better, aText and Typinator.)
Every change we make to 1Password 6 Beta benefits both, even though it doesn't seem like it right now.
I can totally see that all the current work benefits the local version too. :) I can see you're adding features one by one to 1Password 6 for Windows... Rich Icons (soon), Local Vaults (read-only for now), getting really robust syncing working, getting a properly working GUI, making sure the browser extension works and autofills/autosaves, etc. All of that is necessary for both perpetual and subscription versions.
When the cloud client is stable, that'll be about 95% of the work done towards the local version too. Then it's pretty easy to hammer in the nails for the License window for perpetual licensing, and that's it (hehe). So the closer the cloud client gets to release, the closer the perpetual one gets to release. I love what you're doing and how far you have come already! It certainly feels closer and closer to release.
And yeah, the legacy code for handling agilekeychain and opvault formats is tougher, but it's already been ported once to Windows in the 1P4 client, so I am sure it will be pretty easy to add after the cloud client code is stabilized and ready to have the "local database tendrils" plugged into its core. :)
You're doing a great job, and I love seeing the Windows client finally getting the beautiful GUI you've designed on the Mac. I don't think I'll ever be using another password manager for the rest of my life. You're doing everything right. Crypto. GUI. Extensions. Company culture. It's all perfect.
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@Temptin: Well, at the risk of being unpopular, I still use TextExpander. Even if they shot themselves in the foot a bit with the way the new version was rolled out, it's a valuable part of my workflow...and frankly while there are other great Mac apps, the alternatives on Windows are not even remotely compelling. :lol:
As for local vault support, adding it will be the "easy" part, but we want to make sure it's tested thoroughly since, as Mike mentioned, there's no server to do backups and integrity checks if something goes wrong. As far as I'm concerned, that's the best thing about 1Password.com: data loss keeps me up at night, and there are far too few people backing up their data; with the subscription service, offsite backup is something no one has to even think about.
Anyway, we're not perfect, but we're determined to make 1Password better and better with each update. Thanks again for rooting for us! :chuffed:
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