1Password 6 Interface - An opinion from a version 4 user
Hello I’ve been a user of version 4 for quite a while now and overall I’m quite happy with it. I’ve just taken a look at version 6 to see how it’s coming along and I have a few concerns over the interface compared to version 4.
I realise that version 6 is still under development and some things are missing while other things may change.
Where have the columns gone? I’m missing the modified date, password strength bars under Logins and most importantly the Folder Name column under All.
I don’t seem to be able to resize the left hand column like I can column 2 and 3 and there’s a lot of wasted space between the categories and the amount figures that I’d prefer to see used in the other columns.
Limited vertical space/massive icons/ - The individual login items seem gigantic compared to version 4 and now I’m only able to see a fraction of the logins in version 6 before I have to start scrolling. This despite the fact that version 4 uses some of the vertical space to display the login information below the logins, rather than on the right like in version 6. Part of this is down to the display of the Alphabet as you scroll down but even without this the logins are a lot bigger. I would personally prefer much small icons and fonts and get rid of the alphabet to allow for more items to fit on screen.
In version 4 you can view login information by clicking once on the login and viewing the information in the bottom pane or double-clicking the login to view the information in a separate window. The information displayed in the separate window is easier to read but when I double-clicked a login in version 6 nothing happened. Are you still planning on having the popup windows or is this gone?
Revealing a password in version 6 now requires two clicks instead of the one in version 4.
My server items are kept separate in version 6 under a servers category but my generic accounts and ftp accounts have been merged under logins. What’s the thinking behind this? These items are not login items because they have no information to login to anything, they just contain account details and other secure information. Why have you decided to put non-login items in the login category? Why are servers separate but not the other items?
Tags and Folders are MIA.
Watchtower and duplicated categories are MIA.
Password Generator is a simpler version of the version 4 version, are all the 4 options going to be added?
Overall I feel like the current interface is too large (large icons, large fonts) and there is a lot of wasted space. Are you planning on tightening things up a bit and producing a more compact interface? I’m also concerned that some version 4 features might never make it over to version 6. Are you planning on feature parity between version 4 and 6?
When version 6 is released and works with local vaults what will the advantages be for version 4 users upgrading to version 6? I understand there are technical benefits, building from scratch, better foundation to build on, better support for high DPI screens, etc but what about from the viewpoint of an average user (who doesn’t have a high DPI screen)?
1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided
Comments
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Hi @reck, thank you very much for taking your time to provide us with such detailed and helpful feedback.
Whilst there are still quite a number (lots) of features we are working hard (like, really hard) to bring forward into 1Password 6, from 1Password 4 - we are as you've said, rebuilding from scratch. Something we did not have to consider as much when 1Password 4 was initially coming into production was the benefit of touch support displays. Designing interfaces with touch support has to allow for both cursor and fingertip use, which does enlarge the area a little in order to provide a safely usable experience for all.
I hope you don't mind me quoting some of your points in order to provide some clear responses?
Where have the columns gone? I’m missing the modified date, password strength bars under Logins and most importantly the Folder Name column under All.
Having the item layout 'top' view is something we are looking into. Whilst we appreciate a lot of users tend to not use this view, we are always looking to provide the best experience we can for users to have 1Password work the way they want it to. Folders have become redundant since working with tags and multiple vaults. I'll talk more about this further on as I can see you've got a query regarding tags and folders.
I don’t seem to be able to resize the left hand column like I can column 2 and 3 and there’s a lot of wasted space between the categories and the amount figures that I’d prefer to see used in the other columns.
Resizing the categories sidebar, is something I'm very much looking forward to also. Hopefully this will be available sooner rather than later. It would really help with that feeling of 1Password working the way you want it.
Limited vertical space/massive icons/ - The individual login items seem gigantic compared to version 4 and now I’m only able to see a fraction of the logins in version 6 before I have to start scrolling. This despite the fact that version 4 uses some of the vertical space to display the login information below the logins, rather than on the right like in version 6. Part of this is down to the display of the Alphabet as you scroll down but even without this the logins are a lot bigger. I would personally prefer much small icons and fonts and get rid of the alphabet to allow for more items to fit on screen.
We really love the ability of using 1Password on multiple different devices all staying in sync, whether you're using a cursor or being able to touch the display. It sounds quite strange to talk about it in such a way as we're so used to touch devices now and take something as commonplace as syncing for granted. I remember it was only a number of short years ago thinking this was some crazy futuristic stuff in sci-fi worlds. Funny how technology changes our lives so quickly isn't it! Talking of having multiple devices all staying in sync with a consistent experience, Microsoft have very clear and inspiring guidelines for having the same experience on multiple devices whilst keeping the essence of what you're doing right there on center stage. It has actually become a requirement for submitting apps to the Windows Store. You have to make sure your app works with touch and adheres to minimum spacing guidelines along with a number of other great accessibility goals. This is something we're constantly striving to provide, along with 1Password instantly feeling familiar no matter what platform you're using. It should also feel like a perfect match for the platform you're using - anyway, I digress. I will look at ways to reduce some of the whitespace where it is no longer required, whilst making sure we are designing responsibly with the guidelines being met for as many current and future ways of using 1Password as we can.
In version 4 you can view login information by clicking once on the login and viewing the information in the bottom pane or double-clicking the login to view the information in a separate window. The information displayed in the separate window is easier to read but when I double-clicked a login in version 6 nothing happened. Are you still planning on having the popup windows or is this gone?
This aligns with what I mentioned earlier about the top layout view, we are looking to bring forward some of the best and the most useful parts of 1Password 4 into 1Password 6 whilst ensuring we're creating a new up-to-date experience without simply replicating what we already have. The user preference option of double clicking to enter the edit view in 1Password 4 became an issue for a number of users. This is not something we are looking to bring to 1Password 6 as it we believe there are better ways, it might be as simple as a keyboard shortcut or two or more. In the meantime, you click once to view your data and click again to reveal. You can also right click items in the item list or from 1Password mini to copy the information you need.
Revealing a password in version 6 now requires two clicks instead of the one in version 4.
As with the previous question, this is an area of user experience we are looking to improve shortly. From personal experience though, copying and generating passwords are the real stars here, revealing such long and random passwords or a series of random words doesn't hold the same amount of value as knowing they're strong, up-to-date and unique. In 1Password 4 we have the option to use
Ctrl+rto reveal passwords, and on mac you can hold the alt/option key down to reveal information. We're looking at bringing this same user pattern to 1Password 6.My server items are kept separate in version 6 under a servers category but my generic accounts and ftp accounts have been merged under logins. What’s the thinking behind this? These items are not login items because they have no information to login to anything, they just contain account details and other secure information. Why have you decided to put non-login items in the login category? Why are servers separate but not the other items?
We found a most server items were in common with login items, so in the spirit of housekeeping and trying to leave out what could be left out, server items were phased out. When you look at server items, they are usually a username/password and a location to log in, like FTP/email, IM, and so on. Servers like email accounts were just listing the structure of the server, its address, details, and so on, they usually have more data than just three fields.
Tags and Folders are MIA.
With tags in place as they are now and being able to very easily place items in multiple organised vaults, folders have found themselves rather limited in their use. We are working on making tags more beneficial and to strengthen how you can use them in 1Password 6 for Windows, however this isn't available yet.
Have you had a look at using tags with your items, the great thing with tags is you can have multiple tags for each item and multiple items within a tag. Which I have to admit, has felt more helpful in organising my items.Watchtower and duplicated categories are MIA.
It's on our list! :+1::chuffed:
Password Generator is a simpler version of the version 4 version, are all the 4 options going to be added?
We're constantly evolving and improving what we need to use to stay as secure as possible, the password generator is a newer and improved version based on the latest security requirements we adhere to. As it stands, the password generator is doing a great job to provide all that's needed to quickly generate strong passwords that you can simply copy, paste and forget about. Afterall, you should only need to remember 1Password. :chuffed:
Benji
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Hello Doodler,
Certainly easier to quote each other when addressing certain points so I will do the same. Thanks for the detailed response as well.
Having the item layout 'top' view is something we are looking into. Whilst we appreciate a lot of users tend to not use this view, we are always looking to provide the best experience we can for users to have 1Password work the way they want it to.
A lot of users don't use the top view? I think I need to verify that I understand what you mean with top view. This is the default view in 1Password 4 right, where you can see a list of all your logins and other items? If so how are users not using this as it's the default way to use 1Password 4?
1Password 6 still has the long list but without the extra columns. I guess 1p4 uses a table like view and 1p6 is a list view if you get what I mean.I find the table view useful because of the extra info it provides but I'm struggling to see the value of an alphabetical list.
It has actually become a requirement for submitting apps to the Windows Store. You have to make sure your app works with touch and adheres to minimum spacing guidelines
Oh no, that doesn't sound good. I would guess the vast majority of people using Windows 10 would be using a mouse and keyboard. Why should the interface have to be compromised in this way to allow for it to work on touch devices? Mouse users are getting a worse experience because of it. Big chunky icons, lot's of wasted white space which results in more scrolling and less visibility because of this decision. It reminds me of those horrible metro apps that used to be around in the Windows 8 days which thankfully you don't really see nowadays. Hopefully you'll find a way to develop an interface where Microsoft aren't forcing you hand in this regard.
The user preference option of double clicking to enter the edit view in 1Password 4 became an issue for a number of users. This is not something we are looking to bring to 1Password 6 as it we believe there are better ways, it might be as simple as a keyboard shortcut or two or more
How is double-clicking an item to edit it an issue? Isn't it very intuitive this way? How will editing logins work in 1p6 then? A keyboard shortcut doesn't sound very intuitive to me.
From personal experience though, copying and generating passwords are the real stars here, revealing such long and random passwords or a series of random words doesn't hold the same amount of value as knowing they're strong, up-to-date and unique
I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately I have a number of annoying sites where they have disabled the copy/paste in the password field so I have to type the random password from 1Password, hence the viewing of the password. If you could reduce the size of some of the icons\text or reduce the white space there would be more space to fit this sort of useful stuff in.
We found a most server items were in common with login items, so in the spirit of housekeeping and trying to leave out what could be left out, server items were phased out. When you look at server items, they are usually a username/password and a location to log in, like FTP/email, IM, and so on. Servers like email accounts were just listing the structure of the server, its address, details, and so on, they usually have more data than just three fields.
Apologies but you've lost me a bit here. In version 4 all the items in the logins folder are things that actually login to stuff, primarily websites. The other categories are simply containers to hold information until I need to refer to them and don't log into anything.
What I don't understand is why non-login items like generic account are in the login folder when they are not login items. Also why do servers remain separate. You said "We found a most server items were in common with login items" but they remain separate from login items as they should.
Reading your response has actually made me more apprehensive about 1Password 6, especially the touch-first interface decision.
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Hey again @reck, thanks so much for getting back to me. I hope you're having a good week so far!
I will say again how much we really do appreciate you taking the time to feedback to us. It unquestionably shows us the love for 1Password you have over the years.
Right then! As we've got this quote and answer thing going along nicely now, let's keep it up. :+1: :chuffed:
A lot of users don't use the top view? I think I need to verify that I understand what you mean with top view. This is the default view in 1Password 4 right, where you can see a list of all your logins and other items? If so how are users not using this as it's the default way to use 1Password 4?
I'm sorry, I should have been clearer. I'm referring to versions of 1Password 6 we have on other platforms. 1Password 6 for macOS, iOS, Android and on the web all work with our 'list view'. The tabular layout view from 1Password 4 is an option within our Mac app, we have two layout view options there, top and left. We are working super hard to make 1Password 6 for Windows provide the same great experience our Mac App currently holds, so having the option for 2 layout types is something for the future.
Here it is in 1Password 6 for Mac in both views, so you can see how it looks there:
Top item view layout:
and then with a left item view layout
Oh no, that doesn't sound good. I would guess the vast majority of people using Windows 10 would be using a mouse and keyboard. Why should the interface have to be compromised in this way to allow for it to work on touch devices? Mouse users are getting a worse experience because of it. Big chunky icons, lot's of wasted white space which results in more scrolling and less visibility because of this decision. It reminds me of those horrible metro apps that used to be around in the Windows 8 days which thankfully you don't really see nowadays. Hopefully you'll find a way to develop an interface where Microsoft aren't forcing you hand in this regard.
This is something which effects not just software design but any digital platform interaction design nowadays. As short as maybe, 10 years ago, we only ever had to concern ourselves with 1024px screen resolutions, working with mouse cursors and potentially keyboard navigation as a way to provide an inclusive experience. With the explosion of an epic amount of display resolutions, input/control methods and accessibility choices we have available to use there has to be a some system design rules adopted in order to make sense of it all. Soon enough it will become common place to interact with things without even touching them, thanks to VR rapidly becoming more popular. So, with all of this highly motivated change and advancements, designing for all of these choices had to become responsive and more inclusive to how the user is accessing and experiencing them.
Of course, keyboard and mouse is not going away anytime soon, but we have to make sure that we are inclusive to all users as much as possible. I do promise to you that I am going to look at ways with our developers to find ways to improve the 1Password 6 experience for you. It's what we do as designers – not to just make things bigger, bolder and colourful but to solve problems for those we really do care about, the end user. The user who has decided they want to make life easier for themselves with 1Password.
How is double-clicking an item to edit it an issue? Isn't it very intuitive this way? How will editing logins work in 1p6 then? A keyboard shortcut doesn't sound very intuitive to me.
Primary actions for all items should be, you click once to reveal it and double click to action it. The action then depends on the item type you're working with. In the case of logins, the action would be to open and fill the login within the browser. Editing items is a tertiary task, something which should be intentionally actioned and not something which could happen by surprise. (which was happening to users who set their own expectation that double clicking would open and fill, instead it asked to edit) To edit items in 1Password 6, we have an edit button located directly with the items details and the option to right click an item and choose edit from the right click menu is coming soon. As per the option I spoke about before with the item list layout being top or left, we may be able to adopt an option for handling how double clicking is handled in a future release.
I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately I have a number of annoying sites where they have disabled the copy/paste in the password field so I have to type the random password from 1Password, hence the viewing of the password. If you could reduce the size of some of the icons\text or reduce the white space there would be more space to fit this sort of useful stuff in.
Ah yes, I never understand why site's feel the need to do that. Hopefully with the increase of people using password managers ( like 1Password :wink: ) developers of these sites will look to provide a more inclusive experience. I will do what I can to improve the usability experience for you, @reck. :+1:
Apologies but you've lost me a bit here. In version 4 all the items in the logins folder are things that actually login to stuff, primarily websites. The other categories are simply containers to hold information until I need to refer to them and don't log into anything. What I don't understand is why non-login items like generic account are in the login folder when they are not login items. Also why do servers remain separate. You said "We found a most server items were in common with login items" but they remain separate from login items as they should.
Lets take a step back here, I've re-read my previous reply and realise I missed a couple of handy tidbits to piece the puzzle together. The vault(s) you were using were likely an .agilekeychain format. To allow .agilekeychain data to be usable with more recent updates of 1Password we map the agilekeychains to use .opvault formats and more recently, in a format which works with our 1Password accounts. The reason for items getting reorganised into places which may feel a little strange is down to needing map the existing (very large) quantity of categories within agilekeychain down to a more managable and sensible amount. Hence the 'housekeeping' to keep everything tidy and working well. If you would prefer any items which have become 'logins' to be stored as a 'server', I hope the time needed to manually recreate these isn't too much. :smile:
Reading your response has actually made me more apprehensive about 1Password 6, especially the touch-first interface decision.
Oh no, it's not that we're concentrating on touch-first as we're not we are simply concentrating on an inclusive experience first. We absolutely want to make sure that when users who have a fancypants hdpi touch display, or not, or speak english, or not, or those who have the ability to see or not or any other accessibility needs can all use 1Password. I will say, 1Password 6 has already given us a lot of really nice feedback from users who are using it with others, in a team or with their family. As a long time user of 1Password, you're very likely to have heard all about the features of 1Password Teams, 1Password Families and our individuals accounts. We wish we could have brought these outstanding subscriptions to 1Password 4 but unfortunately this just has not been possible.
1Password 6 has only recently become a non-beta release for Teams, it is a new product and with every few days having new releases it is getting better and better. Now, while this is all great, if 1Password 4 is doing everything you need and it sounds like at the moment it is, I invite you to keep an eye on our beta releases.
https://app-updates.agilebits.com/product_history/OPW6#beta
From here, you can see the progress we are making and when you feel 1Password 6 is ready for you, we'd love to help you out on moving day!
Benji
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Hi again @Doodler_Benji,
The tabular layout view from 1Password 4 is an option within our Mac app, we have two layout view options there, top and left.
I understand what you mean now with top view and it's a lot clearer now you've posted a screen grab. That top view from the Mac version looks excellent so hopefully it'll make it over to Windows in 1Password 6.
Primary actions for all items should be, you click once to reveal it and double click to action it. The action then depends on the item type you're working with. In the case of logins, the action would be to open and fill the login within the browser. Editing items is a tertiary task
That actually makes perfect sense so no argument from me here in this regard.
Ah yes, I never understand why site's feel the need to do that. Hopefully with the increase of people using password managers ( like 1Password :wink: ) developers of these sites will look to provide a more inclusive experience. I will do what I can to improve the usability experience for you, @reck. :+1:
It is very annoying, just tonight I had to create an account for an insurance site and I used 1Password to generate me a nice complex password but then found I couldn't past it into the registration form. Actually I'd like to give another example to help support why I think revealing a password needs a 1 click button like in 1Password 4. I have a number of sites where I have to enter, for instance, the 3, 5 & 9 character from my password and I have to reveal the password before I can do this.
Due to the number of times I have to reveal a password I think it deserves it's own button on the interface.
The reason for items getting reorganised into places which may feel a little strange is down to needing map the existing (very large) quantity of categories within agilekeychain down to a more managable and sensible amount.
I'm hoping a custom form option gets implemented that allows for the creations of sections and fields that can re rearranged and renamed which would mean all this old legacy categories won't need to be used any more but i've already had that discussion with brenty - https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/336964#Comment_336964
In regard to the "large" interface i'll have to see how that develops. Personally i'd much prefer to see a more compact, functional interface that give me more information without having to scroll or search for it rather than one that's got to work with touch.
It does make me wonder what the numbers are though. What percentage of users are going to be using their finger with 1Password over a mouse? There's only the MS surface and a small number of laptops with touch support compared to all the desktops our their along with all the other non-touch laptops. If say 80% are mouse users why should they get a less functional display because of the 20% of the sometimes finger users.
There might have been more of an argument if Windows phone had taken off but it sounds like that's about dead and won't be around soon.
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Hi @reck,
I have a number of sites where I have to enter, for instance, the 3, 5 & 9 character from my password and I have to reveal the password before I can do this.
That's where our Large Type feature will be useful and we will add an option to use this in 1Password mini.
Right now, you do have to activate it from the main program but the goal is to add this to 1Password mini, make sure all password fields have the same design; colored numbers and symbols plus the option to use a larger font (with numbered columns) when needed. We do plan to make it more resizable and save it, so the next time you use it, it'll reuse the same size.
In regard to the "large" interface i'll have to see how that develops. Personally i'd much prefer to see a more compact, functional interface that give me more information without having to scroll or search for it rather than one that's got to work with touch.
We do agree and it will get denser over time, especially as we continue to iterate the design. As Benji said, we are not doing this solely because of the touch screens. We're starting out with a basic design and will iterate on it over time. Once we add support for Rich Icons, custom icons, custom section/fields and so on, the interface is going to get a little bit more denser to try to fit as much as details as we can.
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That Large Type window is exactly what I was thinking and is the perfect answer to those sites asking for certain characters from the password. It's also good to see letters, numbers and special characters in different colours and also the fact that the window can be resized as it looks massive at the moment, a common theme i'm seeing with 1Password 6.
I'm curious though about the name. "Large Type" suggests this was created for another reason and it just happens to also help in my situation. Was the original intention of this to help people with poor eyesight?
A couple of requests related to this if I may.
Could you please make this quick to access. You mention 1Password mini but as I 1Password 4 user i'm not 100% clear on how this works yet but if it allows quicker access to passwords and things like the Large Type window it sounds good.
Could you set the Large Type window to always be on top, or make it an option? In my scenario where I need to copy characters from the password it would useful to have it float over the browser and not go behind it every-time I type in a character in the browser. This is a problem I have with 1Password 4 sometimes.
We do agree and it will get denser over time, especially as we continue to iterate the design
Fantastic.
Once we add support for Rich Icons, custom icons, custom section/fields and so on, the interface is going to get a little bit more denser to try to fit as much as details as we can.
Can't wait for all this stuff. I'm sure it will be great once it's all in but I wanted to post my thoughts\concerns early on just in case it made any difference. It's a bit late to complain once it's all been built.
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Hey @reck, I'm glad @MikeT was able to help here :chuffed:
The large type feature is part of 1Password to help in a number of ways including your example about needing put in the xth and the xth characters whilst logging in. Sometimes you need to enter a password on another device when not at your computer, but you can see it from across a room - and yes, amongst other uses there are accessibility benefits too, the name conveys exactly what it is though, its large type. We have it available within our mobile apps also, which is where I personally have found it very useful because of the smaller screen size being able to share a shared wifi password when I was in an office or at home.
1. Could you please make this quick to access. You mention 1Password mini but as I 1Password 4 user i'm not 100% clear on how this works yet but if it allows quicker access to passwords and things like the Large Type window it sounds good.
Absolutely, currently the large type option is available next to 'reveal' in a dropdown list. We are going to be improving the item detail view to improve ease of access even more. Another option might be when you're interacting with the stored password, like a long press (for touch/pen users) and other easy ways.
2. Could you set the Large Type window to always be on top, or make it an option?
Currently, it does appear on top which makes it very handy when logging into those sites you've mentioned.
Can't wait for all this stuff. I'm sure it will be great once it's all in but I wanted to post my thoughts\concerns early on just in case it made any difference. It's a bit late to complain once it's all been built.
I hope you've felt from us how much we appreciate you doing so. 1Password thrives on the support of those who make it part of their lives and knowing how people make use of it to challenge us and to find ways to improve is all we could ask for. Also, never to late to raise any concerns, we are always looking to keep iterating and improving. It is never a "finished" product as it has to adapt as users and security issues evolve.
Thank you, @reck :+1: :chuffed:
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