1Password 3.8.22 on old MacBook is not seeing 4.4.3 data files

SFGreek

I'm running 1Password 4.4.3 on my MBP presently running OS 10.9.5. I upgraded an old MacBook up to OS 10.7.5, the latest it can run (it's kind of my backup laptop), and want to put 1Password on it. I loaded 3.8.22 on it and pointed to the copied-over data files, but it doesn't see them. Are they not backwards compatible to that degree? How can I get my present info, which is extensive, onto that laptop?

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1Password Version: 4.4.3, 3.8.22
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: 10.9.5, 10.7.5
Sync Type: I hate the Cloud.
Referrer: forum-search:Sharing data between old and new macbooks

AGAlumB

@SFGreek: Both 1Password 3 and 4 support the AgileKeychain format, so that should be a problem. One issue you will run into though is that 1Password 4 and above added support for more advanced data, which 1Password 3 will not be able to understand. So if you need to sync between both, the best thing to do is use 1Password 3 as a "reader" and not make changes there.

Can you tell me what you've copied over? I wonder if you copied something other than an AgileKeychain. Let me know what you find!

SFGreek

Thanks Brenty, that would work fine as this is a BU machine. I copied over the data folder from Application Support, which includes OnePassword.sqlite and OnePassword.sqlite-wal . Neither of these are available -- which ones should I have copied? btw, where then is the AgileKeyChain? I looked in Keychain Access to no avail, but I'd assume that might only have the master passwords.

AGAlumB

@SFGreek: Ah, that's it then. Thanks for confirming! Those are part of an internal database that 1Password 4 and above use. 1Password 3 cannot read that data. Open 1Password 4 and go to Preferences > Sync. There you can enable Folder Sync to have the app create an AgileKeychain that you can copy to your other Mac. That should do the trick for you! :)

SFGreek

Thanks again -- where's a good place to put that file?

AGAlumB

@SFGreek: Anywhere you like! I put mine in Dropbox, but it sounds like you may have a different preference. Just keep it somewhere convenient so you can copy it to your other Mac(s) periodically. Cheers! :)

SFGreek

Hey Brent, if you're still around... I finally got around to updating my MBP 2011 to Sierra, and also revisited this problem with the old MacBook running 10.7.5. So: I'm running the latest 1Password on it, but it's not seeing my license (standalone on my MBP). I think the problem is that the latest version I can run on the MacBook is 3x, which I'm running, but the licence is only good for v. 4+? Is that the case?

I've transferred over the AgileKeyChain to use as read only, but am running into this licensing problem, which I can't seem to get around. Any suggestions? When I enter my license, it says it's not a 1Password license.

SFGreek

Apologies, Brenty! autocorrect...

AGAlumB

@SFGreek: Ha, no problem! I'm still here. Good to hear from you again! :)

Sorry to hear you're having trouble with the license, but glad to hear the upgrade went well! I'll shoot you a private message in a minute with your license key.

SFGreek

brent's, thank you so much for all your help, all working as it should. I can't seem to let go of the MacBook--at this point, I keep it around because it feels like steampunk atp.

AGAlumB

Hahaha I hear you! I had a hard time giving up my old Macs too, but had to in order to move and not drag a bunch of stuff I don't use along with me. Anyway, glad to hear that all is well. We're here if you need anything else! :)

dadrake

I discovered this thread a couple of days ago, and I've found it very useful in beginning to understand why my sync capability disappeared a while ago without any warning or explanation that I ever saw. Fixing the problem, though, remains beyond what I want to try without more info.

Situation: I have a MacPro laptop that I upgraded a rew months ago to El Capitan. In the process I had to upgrade 1Password to version 5; and a while later 6 came out, so I did a "So what. why not?" and got that.

Meanwhile, I still am running some stuff (including some stuff that actually matters) on a desktop system with 6.8 Snow Leopard. I have not upgraded that and have no near-term plans to, because Reasons. And that system is running 1P at level 3.Something.

So, finally it dawns on me that my password changes aren't getting between the machines. Wow, that explains a lot! Like why I've done so much swearing at (a site) and (another site) about weird failures in their password systems!

All I need now is to go on the laptop and make it write a keychain somewhere, and periodically (like every time I make any change that matters) load it onto the desktop 1P. But first, I'd like to be sure I can do it without destroying my data. Is that right, and is this possible to do?

I find, a couple of messages up:

Open 1Password 4 and go to Preferences > Sync. There you can enable Folder Sync to have the app create an AgileKeychain that you can copy to your other Mac.

[is there an indented block quote feature on this comment system? I don't see it in the list]
I assume "enable Folder Sync" means I go into Preferences and hit Sync and see the display that says Primary is sync'd with Dropbox.
And it's possible for me to select Folder in place of Dropbox.

Now, I can create my own folder in Dropbox and tell the laptop's V6 to sync there? I know already that if I try to select Folder, I get a warning headed "Disabling Sync" and an option to disable sync or cancel.

OK, I can do that, and even refuse to delete data from Dropbox. But--

Is there any reason I should expect that if I do this and let the system go ahead, the files that it creates will magically be back-compatible with Version 3? So that I can then manually sync from that file on the old system? And is that new file automatically also the file in which the Version 6 writes its auto sync copies when stuff changes, and from which it can restore stuff if needed? Or what?

If you can decipher this, thank you for your time.

dadrake

Ahem. MacBOOKPro.

AGAlumB

@dadrake: As I mentioned above, 1Password 3-6 can all read AgileKeychain vaults, but 1Password 3 cannot read the newer data used by version 4 and higher.

Is there any reason I should expect that if I do this and let the system go ahead, the files that it creates will magically be back-compatible with Version 3?

Yep! But again, if you make changes in the old version and then use it with 1Password 4 or later again, you'll probably have a bad time. The old version will only write its legacy data, and the newer version will ignore it because the newer data already exists. So this is a one-way option only for accessing a vault from the newer apps in the old one. And the old one will not be able to recognize any of the new custom fields and other things which are only supported in the newer versions.

So that I can then manually sync from that file on the old system? And is that new file automatically also the file in which the Version 6 writes its auto sync copies when stuff changes, and from which it can restore stuff if needed? Or what?

I'm not sure what you're asking here, but maybe my answers above help. If not, please clarify and I'll be happy to answer. :)

dadrake

Many thanks. I think my question has been answered, but I'll ask for more detail. (Please excuse my paranoia about things that are said to work compatibly and easily, which I have acquired over more years than I care to mention here.)

[This has become much longer than I expected it to. My excuse is that at one time I was paid to see unlikely exception cases and how they could go wrong. I think I mentioned paranoia above.]

Oh, and I'm assuming that the Vaults of V6 are the Data FIle that was used in V3, greatly expanded and generalized. This may account for anything really silly I say on such matters. Also, I assume it's safe to ignore all the new Vault features at first, beyond what's needed to operate the V6 menus.

So, fully extended, here's the new setup as I envision it:

My Version 6 1Password has (hypothetically) its Vault in a Dropbox file, and it routinely updates that every time anything changes; i.e., nothing special here. If I add a new V6 on some system, it can (but need not) use the same Vault and thereby keep in sync.

My 2 or 3 instances of V3 on old systems do not use the sync feature (*). But at some interval (**) each one accesses the V6 vault and simply sucks up all the data that V3 understands, replacing the contents of the local Data File. And, understood, nothing gets from V3 to V6 except by manual copying of entries.

BTW, I now realize that I am not sure what operation I would use on V3 to access that Vault, which it is not using for its own database. If it's by sharing a data file, see below--

Paranoia strikes as I re-read this: Is it possible to configure a V3 so it actually uses the same Vault file as the V6 is using? And so it gets automatic updates? And horrible things may happen if I change anything on V3, which will write its new -- incomplete -- data, which will then be used by V6 !?? This is why I ask about how to get the new data into V3.

(*) Or do they? Might they share a Data File routinely as they do now? But one that is quarantined from the V6 Vault.

(**) Sounds like a nice function for a daily automatic script, but I'll try to figure that out later. (***) After the simple part works.

(***) And if the V3 instances are sync'd, then only of these needs to take its daily hit from the master Vault. Nice.

Thank you again, and I hope the whole thing is much simpler than I've made it out to be.

AGAlumB

@dadrake: Haha you're totally welcome! Good on you for being so paranoid. It means you're less likely to run into trouble, and also that I can give you the good news that it doesn't need to be quite that difficult. ;)

Honestly, you can do the whole thing with Dropbox. You can setup your 1Password 3 machines to use the same vault there. Literally the only thing you need to do is not make any changes to the data. So long as you uphold that policy, you'll be good to go. The only other proviso (which you were good enough to raise) is that 1Password 3 can only read the "standard" AgileKeychain data. There are probably a few exceptions I'm forgetting, but a good rule of thumb is that if it's data associated with the default item templates (i.e. the normal fields you see when creating a brand new Login item, etc.) then 1Password 3 should be able to read it.

This is really confusing to both understand and explain, so I try to gloss over it a bit. But essentially it comes down to 1Password 3 writing data that newer versions will ignore and vice versa. But the newer apps will update both the legacy and newer data structures so it can be read in both; you just don't want to edit it in the old version or it will appear in the new version as if your changes were lost.

I hope that helps clarify things a bit more, but I'm here if you need anything else. :)

dadrake

Thanks for the further intormation and the prompt reply. (I couldn't be quite so prompt, as I was on the wrong computer and couldn't access my login credentials at the moment!) For the record:

As I figured out over a couple of days, my problem was rather simpler and stupider than I had thought. Simply, after a bunch of thrashing around, I perceived that Dropbox had decided to stop synchronizing my sites, and I hadn't noticed the effects till this thing came up. This was because of missing some mandatory upgrade at the time I was fighting with updating my laptop's system.

So, all better, and now that you've explained the inherent sync problems in using old versions of 1Password, I can probably avoid further weird or missing data. Thanks again.

AGAlumB

@dadrake: No worries. We're here any time. :chuffed:

Glad to hear you were able to get things updated and sorted out with Dropbox. It sounds like you're in good shape, but just give us a shout if you need anything else. Have a great weekend! :)