So many versions, so many solutions, ALL IN, so confusing

factory

As a new user trying out 1password, I find that the options, versions, and downloads available very confusing and intimidating. After installing the ios version, I tried to find out my options to sync my passwords to my windows pc. Initially, I downloaded and installed from 1password version 6.1.308 only to find out that there is a newer version 6.1.616 direct from Agilebits. What I want is only a simple solution to replace my reliance on ios safari passwords, which can be unreliable due to my experience with using it. While Agilebits offer a powerful solution, in my opinion, it is also so much more confusing and intimidating to use. Dear Agilebits, please make things simple. Thanks.

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1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

AGAlumB

@factory: You're right. It's too confusing right now on Windows. We're not in a position to offer a single app here yet, but we're working on it. And in the mean time, we're here to help.

I think you may be confusing 1Password 4 (currently at version 4.6.1.616) there. This is a mature app that supports local vaults, and what you'd use if you purchase a license from the AgileBits Store. Using this, you'll manage your own sync setup (or use it only on your computer).

1Password 6, on the other hand (currently at version 6.1.308), is a brand new app which supports the 1Password.com subscription service. This requires no license management or sync configuration, and includes a web interface as well.

So ultimately while we're looking forward to a day when there's only a single 1Password for Windows download, the choice is really about what you need. If you have only the two devices, purchasing a license for each may work for you. But if you have many more to manage (either yours or your family's), 1Password.com may be a better option — both for cost and configuration reasons.

I hope this helps give you a better sense of the options. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)

factory

When I downloaded 1 password 6 for Windows, I wasn't asked for payment. Is 6 designed for your subscriptions based accounts only? Does it only work full featured for 30 days and I'll have to pay for it to use for syncing with local vaults or Dropbox? Thanks.

AGAlumB

@factory: Indeed. We don't currently sell a license for the new 1Password 6 Windows desktop app because it does not fully support local vaults: they are read-only. So you will not be able to make changes there, and if you make changes on another device, you'll need to sync the vault manually from the Settings menu. So if you prefer to use a local vault and sync with Dropbox, I'd recommend using 1Password 4 since it supports that setup. You can download it from our website and use it for free for 30 days.

factory

Thanks.

AlexHoffmann

You're welcome, @factory.

Don't hesitate to write us again if there's anything else we can help you with.

Cheers,

Alex

factory

I just did a backup from the iOS app in settings advance, create backup. When I save the backup in iTunes to my PC, I discovered that the number of items do not tally. There are 2 more items in the iTunes backup file when compared to what is saved in the iOS app. Please advice why this is possible. Thanks.

AGAlumB

@factory: The item count in a backup includes everything, not just the items you and I might "count". This means if you'd deleted something but not emptied the Trash in your vault (only possible using the desktop apps), those will still be counted. I hope this helps. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)

factory

Thanks for the reply. For your information, I've installed the iOS version of 1password on two iPhones. One is a 6s and the other is an iPhone 7. I've added, amended, edited and deleted login items on both phones.
The PC backup of the 6s is the one having item count discrepancies. I've no problem with this on the iPhones 7's PC backup.
The only difference is that I've changed sync options between iCloud and Dropbox on the 6s while the sync setting on the 7 always remained constant with iCloud. Could this be the cause?
Please advice as I need some assurance that your software is reliable for something as important as keeping our passwords safe, accurate and reliable before I can make any purchase or subscribing decision. Thanks.

MikeT

Hi @factory,

Thanks for writing back.

Is it possible the extra two items are coming from a separate vault that you may not be aware of? 1Password can default to opening your personal vault only and not All Vaults where it may include all items in all vaults stored on your iPhone.

Can you open 1Password on the iPhone 6s, go to Settings on the bottom and select Vaults. Do you only see one vault on the list?

Some folks have an extra vault and it could explain why there are extra items you may not expect to see in the backup. The backups include all items in all vaults.

The only difference is that I've changed sync options between iCloud and Dropbox on the 6s while the sync setting on the 7 always remained constant with iCloud. Could this be the cause?

It can cause this if you've switched between iCloud and Dropbox back and forth but not if it is a permanent change to Dropbox and you've never changed back. The reason is that iCloud and Dropbox are two completely different sync services and 1Password store data differently for both. If you go back and forth, you may cause sync conflicts where the sync service can't tell which item is the latest on both side, so it creates an extra copy just in case.

factory

Thanks for the reply.
I've checked. There is only one vault.
You may wonder why I should worry about this.
The answer is very simple. If your software can't even count items properly, God knows how it's going to be able to maintain an accurate database of all our important passwords? With the password generator, we don't even have a clue what those passwords were.
It is also unacceptable that changing sync options can cause "sync conflicts". There isn't any warning of this potential "sync conflicts" when I switch syncing options. What I need is only a very simple and reliable service. No IFS AND NO MAYBES. Thanks.

MikeT

Hi @factory,

Thanks for writing back.

We're not saying you don't have a valid concern, we just don't know the answer from here because it can be any number of things, there is not enough information to work with. What will help is if you can send us your diagnostics reports from both iPhones and we can see what it could be. If you'd like to do this, please use this guide to generate the 1Password diagnostic report and email it to us at support+windows@agilebits.com. Also, in the email, include the link to this thread along with your forum username, so that we can connect the email to this thread.

Let us know here when you've sent it, so we can confirm we got the email.

We have millions of users and we wouldn't be here for more than ten years if we can't be trusted to keep your data safe. We are 1Password users as well as our families, we wouldn't be alive in this business if we can't get the basic item counting correct but we do have bugs sometime, we're not perfect but we do get them fixed. Our security code has been audited by third party security companies as well and you can read our technical whitepaper to see how 1Password handles your security.

It is also unacceptable that changing sync options can cause "sync conflicts". There isn't any warning of this potential "sync conflicts" when I switch syncing options.

Sync conflicts are natural side effects of any type of sync you do in any programs, it doesn't cause data loss, in fact, it is a preventive measure to maintain your data in all conditions. There is no need to present this warning every time you do something different to your sync settings as long as it doesn't cause any data loss. If there is a chance of data loss, we do present the warnings.

In addition, 1Password will try to resolve the conflicts for you automatically but it is possible, some conflicts are resolved but the copies are left behind for other reasons.

What I need is only a very simple and reliable service.

That's something we're trying to accomplish with 1Password.com service by controlling it ourselves but there isn't a such thing as a simple and reliable cloud-based sync service, the nature of cloud services are unreliable and complex by default. Our job is to keep them simple and reliable for you but it can be the case that 1Password may not be that service for you, it is a powerful password manager yes but it isn't that simple to use compared to iCloud Keychain you've used in Safari.

factory

Thanks for your reply.
I would prefer not to go to the extent of sending in diagnostics and discussing them in a forum.
Since you are sure that non of my data can get corrupted or something simply by switching syncing services, I'll just have to take your word for it.
I may appear too overly worried about data integrity to you. However it is for a good reason, I think.
I used to think that my passwords in safari are safe as long as I have keychain turned on and backing up regularly to iCloud.
I couldn't be more wrong! I found out the hard way that iCloud restore won't restore safari passwords when a user restore a backup to a new device and had to go through the tedious work of password recovery.
This is the reason I turned to 1password instead of relying on safari passwords.
As a confirmation and reassurance, can you please tell me that my user names and passwords and safe and secure as long as I back them up either thru iCloud or Dropbox and that they will still be available to me when I get a new device. Thanks.

AGAlumB

@factory: I understand completely. Bu it's important to make the distinction between data corruption and sync conflicts. Sync conflicts will happen until we have a single "source of truth" and can guarantee that devices . As Mike mentioned, sync conflicts protect us from data loss, since you get to keep the conflicting data rather than tossing out one version and hoping it's the "right" one. Data corruption, on the other hand, is the scourge of our digital existence, and does cause data loss. The only way this relates to sync is that a sync service will sync corrupt data along with anything else — at least until we finally have robust file systems that offer versioning and data integrity, this is a very real problem, and not limited to 1Password.

I'm with you: data loss is terrifying. So my advice to you is to not rely on a sync service as a backup. These will sync your garbage just as easily as anything else. Backup your 1Password data, both locally and offsite. I've lost data in the past, and it isn't something I'd wish on you or anyone else. Dropbox and/or iCloud will definitely make it easier for you to setup a new device, but for the reasons I've outlined above, be sure to have a fallback option. Stay safe out there! :)

factory

Thanks for the advice.

factory

By the way, your link to Backup your 1password data is broken. Kindly provide the correct link. Thanks.

MikeT

Here's the right link to the backup article: https://support.1password.com/backups/#you-can-also-create-and-restore-backups-of-local-vaults

I've also updated @brenty's post with the right link.

factory

Thanks.

factory

I've read with interest how some other users in this forum facing problems with iCloud/iTunes backup and restore pertaining to their usage of 1password. It's kind of scary that iCloud/iTunes backup and restore don't always work as they should. In my experience, iTunes with encryption enabled usually appears to be a safer option when you do restore a backup, especially to a new device and you have sold or lost your old one. That said, would you recommend Dropbox as a better option? Do you have plans for other cloud providers like Google Drive or One Drive etc?
Is manually backing up using iOS advance setting's Create Backup and copying the backup through iTunes considered Failsafe and Foolproof, granted that my hard drive didn't crash? Thanks.

AGAlumB

I've read with interest how some other users in this forum facing problems with iCloud/iTunes backup and restore pertaining to their usage of 1password. It's kind of scary that iCloud/iTunes backup and restore don't always work as they should.

@factory: I agree completely. Frankly, I'd be happier if a failed restore produced some sort of error that would at least point to the cause. But what tends to happen is that it seems like it was successful...but data is missing from one or more apps — or individual apps themselves are missing entirely.

In my experience, iTunes with encryption enabled usually appears to be a safer option when you do restore a backup, especially to a new device and you have sold or lost your old one.

I hadn't thought of that, and I'm not sure I'd be willing to take that chance, but it's certainly possible. From my own struggles with this, it really seems to me that the problem is with the restore process not fully completing, but I think there's a good case to be made for using an encrypted iTunes device backup no matter what. If that also affords a more reliable restore process, that's an even bigger win.

That said, would you recommend Dropbox as a better option? Do you have plans for other cloud providers like Google Drive or One Drive etc?

Dropbox is a great sync service, but I wouldn't recommended it as a "backup" of your data, since deleted or corrupt files will sync as well. Google Drive and OneDrive may be something we can add in the future, but only after serious development and testing.

Is manually backing up using iOS advance setting's Create Backup and copying the backup through iTunes considered Failsafe and Foolproof, granted that my hard drive didn't crash? Thanks.

Yes! The best solution is to save a backup using 1Password and store it somewhere safe offsite. We don't have control over 3rd party services, but we've built backup/restore into the app itself. Better safe than sorry.

factory

Thanks for your reply. It's very reassuring to know that you have a failsafe in place in view of the fact that iCloud/iTunes backup and restore is erratic at best! Cheers!

AGAlumB

You're welcome! I will say that I may have painted a bleaker picture of the iTunes/iCloud backup/restore situation than is fair. Having experienced issues with it personally, with loved ones, and hearing from customers similar stories, my perspective is probably — hopefully — skewed a bit. I feel like 10% failure seems right, but again that's based solely on my own experience. It's probably much lower overall. But I do feel that any time we're talking about data loss due to software errors, even if the chance is vanishingly small, it's something we need to be concerned about, and take the necessary steps to protect our data. <3

wraith

Following up on a related note. I have been a customer of 1Password for Windows, family license, and several Android licenses for some years. I have absolutely no interest in moving to the cloud, if I did I would have chosen Lastpass in the first place rather than 1Password whose differentiation was that it could be local only.

That said, I have numerous concerns with the lack of development of the Android and Windows products, in particular offline OPvault use, and I am happy to upgrade for new features. I have looked online and I cannot for the life of me work out what the upgrade from 1Password4 to 1Password6 Standalone gets me for my 50% discount.

What are the feature differences of 1Password4, and 1Password Standalone?

AGAlumB

@wraith: Thanks for reaching out. I’m sorry for the confusion! As mentioned earlier in the discussion, we're not selling licenses for the new 1Password 6 Windows desktop app, as it does not yet have full support for local vaults in the first place. Can you elaborate on your "1Password standalone" question, and give us a better sense of what you're trying to do? I'm sure we can help. :)