Replacement to the beloved 1Password
Hi All
After waiting for a year and still frustrated that the PC version of 1Password cloud client is essentially useless, I'm looking to signup with either Dashline or LastPass, or alternative.
I'm keen to get away from the problems where 1Password developers seem confused about the design approach and not in any hurry to build a windows client.
I'm essentially an Apple person at home with a Mac, iPad and iPhone, but Windows is my primary productive platform, and a fully functioning PC password tool is needed.
I've resisted the move to 1Password cloud, using the standalone 1Password, but the bugs with syncing duplication and not able to sync across the desktop and laptop (2 PC's) without crating massive issues in the apple ecosystem is painful and i've finally run out of patience.
Does anyone recommend a password tool the works as well as the apple ecosystem 1Password, but where the PC environment is taken seriously?
Thanks in advance.
W
1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided
Comments
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Hey Will,
Thanks for reaching out to us and giving us feedback on 1Password for Windows.
We're sorry to hear that you're dissatisfied with 1Password on Windows and we'd like to know more.I'm keen to get away from the problems where 1Password developers seem confused about the design approach and not in any hurry to build a windows client.
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I've resisted the move to 1Password cloud, using the standalone 1Password, but the bugs with syncing duplication and not able to sync across the desktop and laptop (2 PC's) without crating massive issues in the apple ecosystem is painful and i've finally run out of patience.Can you elaborate on the issues you've experienced? You say that you're using the standalone versions of 1Password across operating systems. How are you syncing your data? I say this because the only officially supported way of synchronising your 1Password vault across macOS and Windows is Dropbox and while there are rare cases where it can fail, their syncing product is solid.
Does anyone recommend a password tool the works as well as the apple ecosystem 1Password, but where the PC environment is taken seriously?
We take 1Password on Windows very seriously. Seeing that 1Password 4, while mature and very stable, wasn't adaptable to our subscription service, and simply showing its age, we decided to build a new 1Password for Windows from the ground up, using the latest user interface guidelines and technologies Microsoft recommends to developers.
The result is a first class Windows 10 application, that is perfectly adapted to the operating system, responsive, and easier to use than the older version.If you're syncing across various platforms, our cloud product is definitely worth a look.
Let us know if you have any other questions.
Cheers,
Alex
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Hi Alex
To your first point.
You say that "the only officially supported way of synchronising your 1Password vault across macOS and Windows is Dropbox" for standalone 1Password.
That's the root problem right there. That is why i'm looking to try and move to a family subscriptions (or anther product) .... but the Windows replacement client is, well only one word properly describes it ...crap. It's not even a beta, it's an alpha, and pretty much useless after about 2 years of development. The AgileBits windows team are hopeless. Get rid of them.The syncing issues experienced for 1Password standalone are:
It is possible (while not official) to sync multiple PC's to a single iPhone, but as soon as a second PC's is added the syncing never finishes, getting stuck in a never ending loop
-- The attachments do not sync across multiple PC's
-- The one-time-passwords duplicate every sync (have had to manually delete up to 70 duplicates). Worse, this can not be done on the windows client as there is no vertical scroll, so it must be done on the iPhone app.
-- A full sync is required when changing back to apple cloud syncing. It's a manual process that is not great but workable with one PC, but becomes a mess when trying to sync multiple PC's, OSx and iOS.Syncing two PC's with the highest version of 1Password encryption (new file type) is not possible without massive issues. I don't want to sync to Dropbox with the old encryption security (AgileKeychain). I want to use the new version (OPVault).
To your second point.
This is completely not true.
The windows 1Password client that is available for 1Password family is total rubbish (buggy, very few features, and unstable). People have been saying as much for almost 2 years since the first Windows 10 app versions was put into the windows 10 app store.
The standalone 1Password client has not been changed to include Families/Teams, can't sync multiple PC's, and can't sync to apple cloud. It is version 4 while the OSx client is version 6. It is two generations behind the rest of development. There was a time AgileBits took the windows client seriously, but that is no longer the case.
Please don't pretend that this is anything other then a lie.
AgileBits do not take the Windows upgrade path seriously. You have had 2 years to make changes and the developers have done nothing but screw about. Get rid of them and put in place a real development team if you want to take Widows seriously. The current team are useless.Anyway I'd like to hear from people who want to help me find a replacement tool and not from the AgileBits team who want to misdirect people.
Thank you,
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@will_i_am: It sounds like you're not interested in hearing from AgileBits staff, so I'll be brief. If I've misunderstood, please let me know and I'll be glad to have a dialogue with you. I'd very much like to address the feedback you've taken the time to share, but not if you're not interested in a dialogue in the first place. Also, while I'm really sorry you feel this way, insults and rude language are not acceptable behaviour, neither here nor anywhere else. Perhaps other 1Password users will want to weigh in, but I can't imagine that your response to Alex offers much encouragement in that regard. If you're just looking for alternative apps, there are a lot of great independent resources out there in the form of download sites and reviews. Obviously we'd very much like for you to use 1Password, but only if it serves your needs. Stay safe out there.
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Hello Brently
The truth can be a hard thing to deal with sometimes. Alex is responsible for the mess that is the Windows app, so maybe he should take a hard look at himself and maybe AgileBits should start addressing the root cause of this problem, it's Windows development team.
I've read several posts by users over the past two year and Alex repeatedly dismisses customers frustrations with placating words and false/stalling statements.
If you prefer to not hear that windows 6 app refereed to as crap, then let me use other words.
The windows 6 app is terrible because it does not work consistently due to the bugs.
The windows 6 app is terrible because it only has a small percentage of features compared to other 1Password versions.
The windows 6 app is terrible because it appears to have a different design flow to the rest of the amazing AgileBits software.
The windows 6 app is terrible because it is not intuitive and seems to be built by someone with no understanding of a UI (User Interface) design approach.
The windows 6 app is terrible because it is difficult to view with it's white on white colour scheme.My issue is not with AgileBits nor the ios apps, nor the mac software, nor the original (many years old design) of the windows 4 client.
My issue is with the the release of terrible, under-featured, buggy, and non intuitive windows 6 software.
Clearly Alex is "playing" and exploring with ideas and design, but come on team.
But, we need a solution that works. It really is that simple.
Lets have a plan for build.
Lets have a strategy for the design and the look.
Lets have some commitment to milestones.
Most importantly, lets have a piece of software the actually does the job we need it to do.If Alex is too busy, maybe you can assist him with providing more team members.
If Alex is more interested in prototyping than development, maybe you can assign another windows team member to manage the go-to-market build process.
If Alex is to precious and gives excuses to delays, maybe you can provide him with a coach or some industry training.
If Alex does not have a development methodology, maybe you can bring in Agile or anther methodology to assist him.I understand you feel the need to support your team, but when customers are complaining about a product for 2 years, maybe there is a reason, and maybe rather then trying to smooth over the problem, a more direct solution should be applied to the root cause.
It's not that i don't want to hear from AgileBits, I am bothering to communicate here because I truly love the 1Password solution and recommend it constantly to people. It is that the currently Windows 6 client really is .... terrible, and quite simply is not suitable as a production solution.
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@will_i_am: I totally understand if you're not satisfied with the new 1Password 6 Windows desktop app. We aren't either, and that's why we're working so hard on it. You can criticize our work. We actually really appreciate it, though it's better received when it's constructive and actionable. It's personal attacks that aren't acceptable, and, in this case, misplaced, as Alex isn't personally responsive for the state of 1Password on Windows. We all are, collectively. So let's move on from that. I think it's not only inaccurate for you to take out your frustrations on any one individual, it's ultimately counterproductive, as it detracts from what are, I think, when we dig down deep, legitimate complaints about an app you care about. After all, 1Password for Windows is beloved around here too, and it's a shame that our current offerings (which are simultaneously a bit too old, a bit too new, and collectively confusing) aren't a good demonstration of that.
I think if 1Password 6 had been around for the past two years it would likely already meet your expectations. But it's roughly 6 months old. That's not an excuse, but just the reality of the situation: it's a very young app (especially compared to 1Password 4 and the other platforms) that doesn't yet have the level of polish that we all expect and that you and the rest of our awesome customers frankly deserve. I'm sorry for that, and that's not because the blame rests solely on my shoulders, but rather because I care -- and from the sounds of it you clearly do as well. But you'd be right to say, "You can stuff your sorries in a sack, Mister!", as apologies don't really help the current situation. The only remedy is hard work. We're very much aware of the deficiencies of the new app, and that it sucks when one (or more) of these are detrimental to your workflow (and our own).
That isn't to say that you shouldn't bother telling us though! You're absolutely right about the things that need improvement, and it helps to hear them, as it helps us prioritize what we work on for each new release -- and everyone has a slightly different take. I know it's rough now, but I think if you'll stick it out you'll be pleasantly surprised as it becomes more and more what you want it to be -- and you can help shape it by continuing the dialogue. Have you tried the latest beta? It's totally understandable if that's not something you're interested in, but based on your passion I feel like that might be right up your alley.
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@will_i_am thank you for your feedback, I find it helpful. Are you using 1Password 6 from Windows Store or 1Password 6 for Windows desktop? From your mentions of "white on white" issue and 2 years old app I think you are using the one from the Store, while all effort was in the desktop app lately. Store version is getting a very much needed update soon.
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Hi Sergey
I originally installed the windows store version the day after windows 10 went General Release and have been monitoring the build since then. You had one of the very first windows 10 apps - it's a shame the windows app concept has not quite worked out for Microsoft ... again.
When the windows store version was discontinued, I downloaded the beta and then the productive version of 1Password for Windows.Hi Brenty
You are correct, it is not productive. I guess i was pretty annoyed after reading a thread where another customer was complaining and being frustrated by the replies, and felt that maybe the writing was on the wall for 1Password for windows.
I had genuinely started to research alternative solutions, and only wrote on this forum because i know i'm not the only customer who is experiencing some pain with the product, and looking for greater features as products mature and evolve in the market.
This tool, above all other software, is quite personal and emotional, since we put a huge amount of trust (and hopefully support), into the team we choose to buy our password solution from. If the team stuffs up, our privacy and personal life could be significantly impacted (which was why i'd chosen 1Password in the first place. The team genuinely appears to care and want to create something amazing.)
Good luck with the windows development. I am grateful you comment that you are not happy with the windows client. This honesty is good to hear, and hopefully you will soon progress the tool to a point where is is really great.0 -
@will_i_am I see, now that it's clear that the problem is not with outdated Windows 10 app, I'm even more interested to get specifics.
You are right, Store apps didn't fly as well as many of us hoped. The technology evolved over last couple of years though. Microsoft Store and Edge teams have made huge improvements couple of weeks ago, so now I can't really have an excuse why there is no app in the Store. But let's get back to the question you have - Windows client gives you pain and you are looking to replace it. I believe the best replacement is an updated 1Password for Windows client where issues you are experiencing are fixed.
I took the liberty of choosing that list from your previous post, but I need your help so I can do the right thing.
The windows 6 app is terrible because it does not work consistently due to the bugs.
Nobody likes bugs and inconsistencies. Could you please provide an example?
The windows 6 app is terrible because it only has a small percentage of features compared to other 1Password versions.
As much as I don't like that, it's true. What would you suggest to implement first? What is missing for you in your daily routine?
The windows 6 app is terrible because it appears to have a different design flow to the rest of the amazing AgileBits software.
Good design is hard, especially when it comes to Windows with multiple types of devices, mix of high-dpi and low-dpi displays, ever changing design language on the platform... but it's as simple as that - we need to work harder on it. What is striking in the eye for you?
The windows 6 app is terrible because it is not intuitive and seems to be built by someone with no understanding of a UI (User Interface) design approach.
I personally find some of the things super non-intuitive and hard to find/understand without context, I'm sure you have even more frustration. I'm not going to take responsibility away from myself for that. What do you find confusing and non-intuitive? Let's start with few issues only ;)
The windows 6 app is terrible because it is difficult to view with it's white on white colour scheme.
I'd appreciate a screenshot if it's possible. We have had black on black or white on white in universal app (the one from the Store) and we took all kind of precautions to not fall into that pit with desktop app. Or you refer to the lack of contrast between white background and some labels (like field labels in item viewer/editor or 2nd line in item list)? I'd be more than happy to get team to find a better colour solution that looks sharp and feels good.
Once again, thank you for your time here. I'm not happy to hear what I hear, but I'd like to follow your advise and look at the mirror (I happens to have one right in front of me). If there is a good password manager fit for you then it's the one we build with your feedback. <3
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Hi Sergey
I've had a look at your competition, and while they are better then the current Windows 6 app, their product is not nearly as good as the 1Password overall solution.
As such, here is my reply to your question - What would you suggest to implement first?
1a. Color - add back the icons so they show. When we have 200+ passwords, the visuals are far easier, and nicer, to use.
1b. Color - The grey on the left is too subtle. Make it bolder. This will work better once color from tool tips and icons are added back.2a. Right click - Introduce the right click framework again, starting with Duplicate, Delete and add Attachment.
2b. Right click to add folders on the left side.3a. Editing - Ability to add attachments. Key feature that is badly needed.
3b. Editing - Adding sections is not intuitive unless you have used them in past version of 1Password. Maybe add a tool tip or something visual to know that once you enter details, the section and fields become active.
3c. Same with tags. Add a tool tip on how to use.4a. Passwords - Ability to see the password while editing. Either default or a toggle.
4b. Passwords - Add back the ability to choose the number of digits symbols, and ability to repeat.
4c. Passwords – Add new feature. Right click to generate password. When the website form is captured by 1Password, it would be nice to be able to generate a powerful password that is saved by the web-form. At present I would create a login, generate the password, then delete the entry. Adding a password ends up with duplicate entries in 1Password 4.- Layout - I can see that the trend in password apps is to have big items on the screen, but this only really works for less than 10 passwords or for demo purposes. When we have 200+_ passwords, screen real-estate is important. Either make each entry smaller, or have a setting to allow many lines on a screen.
6b. Vaults - Ability to add a vault from the app, not just from the website.
6b. Ability to open local vaults (1Password 4), even though they will not sync to Families/Teams.This might be more then a starting list, but I hope it helps.
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@will_i_am thanks for coming back, your feedback is really appreciated. Let me quickly reply to each point, but please consider everything as an open issue, nothing is set in stone and we'll continue to improve:
1a. Color - add back the icons so they show. When we have 200+ passwords, the visuals are far easier, and nicer, to use.
Yes, rich icons makes UI looks better. We have had it initially, but due to discovered memory leaks and some crashes we pulled them out. I'll see what we can do to bring them back sooner than later. We have improved some internals since then.
1b. Color - The grey on the left is too subtle. Make it bolder. This will work better once color from tool tips and icons are added back.
Talking to designer now.
2a. Right click - Introduce the right click framework again, starting with Duplicate, Delete and add Attachment.
You can right click on item in the list, it has Copy (almost as good as Move, but not as good, Move is coming), Move to Trash (this is Delete), Duplicate - on the todo list, Add Attachment - please see 3a below. We are also looking to add more context menus to the sidebar (currently i think it's only Trash item that has context menu to clear it when user is in specific vault, not something that is easy to discover).
2b. Right click to add folders on the left side.
1Password 6 for Windows follows 1password.com design and do not have folders at the moment, it has been replaced with tags. I think we should improve UI/UX with tags so they can be as productive and pleasant to use as folders.
3a. Editing - Ability to add attachments. Key feature that is badly needed.
1Password 6 is treats files as items of Document type. You can add either document type item or click "New Item > Import files as Documents..." and import multiple files faster.
3b. Editing - Adding sections is not intuitive unless you have used them in past version of 1Password. Maybe add a tool tip or something visual to know that once you enter details, the section and fields become active.
I'll talk with the team to see what can be improved. It appears clear enough to me, but I see 1Password for Windows way more often than anyone on the planet and I might take things for granted.
3c. Same with tags. Add a tool tip on how to use.
That's a good idea.
4a. Passwords - Ability to see the password while editing. Either default or a toggle.
It is implemented, but I think it's in the beta branch still. Pressing Ctrl+Alt in editor or viewer will reveal passwords while you keep keys pressed. Global Options > Security > Display > Conceal Passwords setting also affects this, if it's off - all passwords are revealed by default.
4b. Passwords - Add back the ability to choose the number of digits symbols, and ability to repeat.
I do not have some good answer to that, I'll bring this up with the team to see what way it's going to be.
4c. Passwords – Add new feature. Right click to generate password. When the website form is captured by 1Password, it would be nice to be able to generate a powerful password that is saved by the web-form. At present I would create a login, generate the password, then delete the entry. Adding a password ends up with duplicate entries in 1Password 4.
There are some improvements in the todo list for Strong Password Generator, I'll make sure your feedback included in design. Thank you!
Layout - I can see that the trend in password apps is to have big items on the screen, but this only really works for less than 10 passwords or for demo purposes. When we have 200+_ passwords, screen real-estate is important. Either make each entry smaller, or have a setting to allow many lines on a screen.
True, it's a bit of history at work here. 1Password 6 came from the Windows 10 Store app and it bears more touch friendliness than mouse efficiency. Latest updates includes Ctrl+plus/Ctrl+minus keys to adjust font size. While it does not solve issue completely, it helps a bit. We are going to continue in that direction, so you will be able to choose how much fits on the screen.
6b. Vaults - Ability to add a vault from the app, not just from the website.
While it's not on the short list, it's definitely going to be possible.
6b. Ability to open local vaults (1Password 4), even though they will not sync to Families/Teams.
Ctrl+Shift+O or Gear > Accounts & Vaults > Folder > Open vault will let you open local vault in read only mode. Sync is possible, but it's manual at the moment (Gear > Accounts & Vaults > your_folder_vault > Sync.
Once again thank you for your feedback, it's important to us to hear these things in order to build the right app for you. As a matter of fact we have been slower on updates over last month than we wanted to, there are so many improvements in the beta app that was released yesterday. And there are more scheduled to go live to beta channel tomorrow. I'm not sure at which version you are currently, but I'd like to invite you to try latest beta. Hope this helps :)
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Hi Sergey
Here are my thoughts on the items i probably had not explained adequately. The other replies from you are clear.
2a. Ok, trash (delete) is fine, but copy (duplicate) does not work, and attachments I’ll discuss in 3a. Copy gives a message saying there are no other vaults to share item to. I use copy a lot when i have multiple accounts (ie amazon or google). I copy (duplicate) the original and change the elements that are different. I do this primarily because i'm not a fan of webforms and don't like the mess of entries web forms create with the unnecessary fields. This workflow is better, but might just be me.
2b. This is great. Much better then folders. I've had a proper play with tags now and love the idea. Big smiles here. It would be excellent to add a "select many" then right click to group lots of entries at once under a single tag. But knowing how these type of free form fields work, this might not be as simple to implement as the idea is.
3a. I had not tied this, It's nice i guess, but that’s not how i use attachments. I would for instance take a photo of a membership card and add it as an attachment to a entry. I might also add a crypto key file for something like boxcryptor as an attachment to login details. The attachment feature is excellent in 1Password 4 (except when it does not sync). Is it possible to double up and allow attachments against other enters also?
6b. I had not tested this fully. I had simply added the vault and closed 1Password. The password to the standalone vault did not work on opening and i presumed it was broken. Upon further testing i now see that the standalone vault is controlled by the password to the families account, and that upon opening with the families password, the standalone vault has no password protection of it's own (I did not test leaving the vault to time out). This feature is probably not at a stage i would want to use yet as it only allows view access. Except for the freezing that happens when bother versions 4 and 6 are open together, I’ll continue to use version 4 till things improve.
I look forward to seeing what comes in the months ahead.
Thank you for the replies and the great product and hopefully the awesome 1Password for windows 6 app :)W
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thank you @will_i_am
2a ... Copy gives a message saying there are no other vaults to share item to.
That happens when there are no other vaults that can receive an item. Since duplicate is nothing more than a copy to the same vault with altered title, i think it won't be long till we get it.
2b ... It would be excellent to add a "select many" then right click to group lots of entries at once under a single tag.
This is something I look forward to implement soon, tags management on multiple items is really needed.
3a. I had not tied this, It's nice i guess, but that’s not how i use attachments. I would for instance take a photo of a membership card and add it as an attachment to a entry....
we are looking into improving it, there are ways both inside the app and at 1password.com
6b ... Except for the freezing that happens when bother versions 4 and 6 are open together, I’ll continue to use version 4 till things improve.
1Password 4 is the best choices if you are using folder vaults, while 1Password 6 is best choice for 1password.com accounts. However, when both of them are running they are both competing for the browser extension love and it really comes down to which one was started earlier.
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