Status of Documents + Minor UX Comment
Lots of progress in the latest beta! Love the search features and 1Password mini is getting seriously excellent.
Would you guys be willing to provide an update on where you're headed with documents/attachments? Mac, cloud, and Windows versions are still inconsistent and this one of the things keeping me from switching to the cloud. Attachments on local vault items don't show up at all within 1Password 6 Windows. They don't go to the cloud when copied to a cloud vault. On Mac, attachments on local vault items do get copied to the cloud but they break out into standalone documents (and are related). The cloud displays relationships and can navigate across them, but can't create them. When relationships are present, 1Password 6 on Windows can display them, but it can't navigate them (maybe a bug?) and it can't create them.
So what's a guy to do? I could borrow my wife's Mac and move my vault to the cloud, but I can't create relationships on Windows. I really like the way that 1Password 4 worked with embedded attachments. Could use some insight into the roadmap for attachments especially as it relates to the Windows release.
One small UX request for the current Windows release. I like the UX scaling through the use of ctrl + / ctrl -. In the category list, the fonts scale but the vertical padding stays constant. When the font gets to smaller sizes, which I prefer, the vertical padding is excessive and essentially counteracts the value of shrinking the font (which is to get more content displayed on the screen). I know you guys care about touch interface - and I do, too - but I think that the choice to have the font be small is a clear indicator that I want more stuff displayed vs. lots of room for stubby fingers to tap at stuff. Could you maybe look at this?
Thanks.
1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
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Comments
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Hi @zendnez,
Thanks for writing in.
Love the search features and 1Password mini is getting seriously excellent.
That's great to hear, thank you.
When the font gets to smaller sizes, which I prefer, the vertical padding is excessive and essentially counteracts the value of shrinking the font (which is to get more content displayed on the screen)
They're not linked together, the padding is a separate design element, which is why it is not working yet. We do want to reduce the padding with the font size but it is something that'll have to wait.
Now, I know these aren't the primary issue, the situation with Documents/Attachments/Related Issues/local vaults/migration is really a complex "thing".
First, there are no such things as embedded attachments on the 1Password.com service, we only do Documents. The reason is to allow you to share the "files" between family members, co-workers, and between different accounts without having to recreate the file each single time and without having to share the original item it came embedded with. Thus, we've created Documents instead to serve as the container for the file. You could easily move/copy/duplicate this in any way you want.
Related Items is an idea we came up so that you could link a Document to a related item, like your driver license image to your Driver license item. The problem is, it doesn't have a great UX and it is exclusive to macOS at the moment. We're trying to figure out a better cross-platform solution and it is taking a while to get there.
The complexity comes from the migration part. Here's what the macOS does: upload all items first without attachments, then moves on to the attachments, decrypt the local file one at a time, re-encrypt them as a Document item, add the UUID (from the filename) of the said Document item to the other item as a Related Item, and upload them via a completely different and newer APIs. This is an extensive and very complex process, something we want to wait until 1Password 6 is at a more complete stage before we start tackling this on.
Right now, if you want to migrate to 1Password.com, you have to use 1Password 4 for Windows to export from the local vaults. You'll get a folder with all of your attachments, you can use the 1Password 6's New Item > Import Files as Documents to automatically upload multiple files as Documents. However as you said, there is no way to create relationships outside of the macOS version yet. You can add a tag instead and once 1Password 6 gain support to create Related Items or we find a better replacement for Related Items, you can replace it based on the tags.
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Thanks @MikeT, as always, for taking the time to respond and explain.
Please consider this as constructive feedback : I don't buy the document sharing justification for not supporting documents attached to items. The case being made is that people should be able to share a document without having to share the containing item. That justification doesn't apply to any of the cases in which I've used attachments over the years.
In my case, attachments are things like license files, certificates (e.g., .pem files), and even emailed receipts printed to PDFs. These aren't shared documents such as what I do with OneDrive or DropBox. These are properties of items which happen to be files. That's why attachments were so useful - they allowed me to model a software license (purchase date, duration of license, what it's for, the license file) or logins to certificate-requiring sites (URL, username, certificate file), and so on.
These attachments have no meaning or use without their containers.
I don't have any issue with the introduction of a Document type. The issue I have is that it was treated as a replacement for attachments.
Related Items don't help much. Even if they were available consistently across platforms, I still would be very lukewarm about the whole thing because it solves a containment problem with a relationship construct.
I do appreciate the tip on how to export in 1Password4 to get docs into an up-loadable state. I didn't know about that.
If you have the option of sending this feedback around to other folks, I would appreciate that. If you had a uservoice-type forum on which I could vote for features, my #1 ask would be to return attachments.
Thanks again.
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Hi @zendnez,
That justification doesn't apply to any of the cases in which I've used attachments over the years.
We do understand but do consider that for us, 1Password.com didn't exist a few years ago and we were about to enter a whole new world. Some things we've done don't make sense today, we are working to rebuild the ones that don't and improve the ones that do.
Everything is drastically different with 1Password.com service including how items are structured and sync'ed, nothing is the same compared to local vaults and attachments, and as 1Password.com first became available for Teams (businesses) only, a lot of decisions were focused on sharing between multiple accounts. As we move on to introduce Families and now Individuals, some of the use cases and decisions made in the past do not make sense and we have to figure out a different approach that applies to all plans.
Your feedback has been bought up already and we're having a lot of discussions about it already, it's just a huge change and we don't want to do it wrong again, we want to do it right and so your feedback and others as well are in fact being considered. There might be a solution that we're thinking of right now and if it works out, it might address your issue right off the bat and negate the need of related items, documents and so on.
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You're welcome.
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