1pw helper crashes (1pw v 4.6.2.626)

Alt68er

1Password 4.6.2.626, Firefox Extension 4.6.12.90, Win 10 pro 1709 build 16299.192, Firefox 58.0.1

I was and still am using 1pw since November 2016 always under the latest versions of 1 pw, Windows, and Firefox to my full satisfaction and without any problems until the Windows upgrade to v1709 in October last year.

Shortly after this upgrade the 1pw helper application started to crash more or less often. Sometimes I could see it when it showed up more than 1 (all open or all closed) padlock-icons in the system tray, other times there was only 1 icon and I noticed the problem only when I started my desktop banking application and could not log in with the German shortcut Ctrl + #. When the helper had crashed I could (and still can) hover with the over the padlock-icon(s) and it or they disappear.

When starting the browser again the helper automatically runs again and within the browser the logins work automatically as a charme. At that time also the login into my destop application works. As another workaround I placed a shortcut to the helper on my desktop and (re-)start it manually.-

In the meantime I tested 1 pw on my wife's laptop under very similar conditions and there it crashes too.

Then I did a clean new install of Windows and all my software on my PC and also my wife's laptop. No change at all.

In the last 2 weeks I've setup my newly created PC with clean installs of Windows and all my software. On this new PC I have the same problem.-

All this does not look like a special problem on one PC but like a problem with the helper application itself.

I reported this problem already in October 2017 (look case [#BUC-49931-377]) but unfortunately we did not find a solution. On the other side until today I did not find out at which occasion the helper crashes and therefore cannot give you more information.

Could you please give me some information about all the necessary pre-requisites for a smooth running of the helper application? This could help me in so far that I "cleaned" my Windows installations, i.e. I uninstalled and/or deactivated a lot of apps resp. features of Windows (but not .NET, which is still installed in v4.7.1). Could be that I cleaned too much ???

It would really be great if you have any idea which helps.

The last days I tested some other password managers which all work fine and without any problems. But they are not working as smoothly as 1pw does, WHEN it works. Therefore I'm not thinking to change my password manager but on the other side I want that my favourite pw manager (1pw!) works fine without crashes.

Kind regards and many thanks in advance for your assistance,
Peter

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1Password Version: 4.6.2.626
Extension Version: 4.6.12.90 (for Firefox)
OS Version: Win 10 pro 1709 build 16299.192
Sync Type: none (local only)

Greg

Hi there @Alt68er,

Thank you for your detailed post! We really appreciate it. :+1:

The issue you described sounds like a known issue with Firefox, see this thread and reply from Mike there. What do you think, does it look familiar to what you experience?

Please try to do the following to diagnose this issue:

1) Launch 1Password before launching Firefox. Does the issue remain with this order?

2) Use Chrome. Does the issue remain there?

Thanks in advance! We will be looking forward to your reply. Thanks!

Cheers,
Greg

Alt68er

Hi Greg,
thanks a lot for your comments and hints. Yes, "my bug" seems to be at least similar to that described in your linked thread.
But:
a) 1pw always starts with Windows;
b) the crash happens at any time of the day after (or during?) the first, second, third, fourth, or any later run of Firefox.

Regarding Chrome: ok, although I really hate the browsers from Google and Microsoft I'll give it a test and inform about the result immediately after the first crash or - if no crash happens - in one or two days.

Kind regards and good luck for your investigations with Mozilla.

Peter

Greg

@Alt68er: thank you for your reply! :+1:

This issue is hard to track down, but we do our best. Please let us know how it works in Chrome, so we could at least rule it out. Thank you!

Cheers,
Greg

Alt68er

Hi Greg,

it really seems to any interaction between 1pw and Firefox because during 2 days of using Chrome instead of Firefox I did not have any crash of 1pw.

So, again I can only wish you good luck to track down this issue and find a solution!

Pls be so kind and inform me about any news in this context. Thanks a lot and have a nice weekend,

Peter

bundtkate

@Alt68er: Ultimately, I believe we came to the conclusion that this was an issue with Firefox. We were able to implement a workaround in 1Password 6, but I don't believe a similar fix has been deployed for 1Password 4 (nor am I certain the same tactic would work there). One bit of positive news I can give you is that 1Password 7 will have the fix we put in 1Password 6 as well, so once it's ready to go, you'll at the least have the option of upgrading to correct this. :+1:

Alt68er

Thanks for your information. But these aren't good news for me.

When starting with 1pw I explicitly decided not to use 1pw 6 but the standalone version 4. I don't need and don't want all the things like synchronisation, family license etc. etc. but simply a standalone application. And v7 I think will be similar to v6 and not to v4. And I believe I have to pay for such an upgrade...?

If I cannot expect a solution for a software I already paid for I won't upgrade to an unwanted version and additionally pay for it.

When you know the problems with Firefox why don't you release a fix for v4 too, with the same tactic or a different one?

May be I have to revise my opinion and to change to another password manager.

Thanks and regars,
Peter

bundtkate

@Alt68er: Ultimately, we have to pick a point in time where we stop actively updating older versions. We've continued updating 1Password 4 for several years precisely because it was the only standalone application available, but since 1Password 7 will be available as a standalone app its release likely will mark the end of consistent updates to 1Password 4. That said, as Mike mentioned in the reply Greg linked, ensuring 1Password 4 is running before launching Firefox should ensure you don't encounter this issue.

Alt68er

I agree with your first statement, that you have to stop actively updating older versions at a specific point of time.

But please consider, that

1. a bugfix is not an update!
2. As long as you are selling a version you should - and I expect that you do it - fix any bug (and I still can download and buy a license!!!!);
3. 1pw sometimes crashes although it ALWAYS IS running before starting Firefox.-

BTW: When I want to upgrade from v4 to v7 do I have to pay for it as standalone version only? Or do I have to pay for it monthly/yearly as for v6? Both would be a real show-stopper for me.

Reagrds,
Peter

bundtkate

@Alt68er: We are actually no longer selling 1Password 4 for Windows, precisely because it is no longer getting consistent updates. It's available for download, but no longer available for purchase from our store. While I can understand that bug fixes and feature updates are different, bugs result from all sorts of outside sources -- from browser updates, to OS changes, to (yes) us screwing up. What's stable today is broken tomorrow, often through no fault of our own. Monitoring for these things and fixing issues caused by modern software interacting with an old app is no small amount of work and ultimately the need to put a stop date on these things is rooted in the need to focus those resources elsewhere. Namely, on the versions folks just paid for (or are continuing to pay for in the case of 1Password memberships).

1Password 7 will be a paid upgrade (either a one-time payment or via a 1Password membership -- your choice) and I'm sorry if that's a deal breaker for you. We've historically been very generous with free upgrades and most of our standalone customers haven't paid for a single upgrade in years. We appreciate y'all's support and we want you to have the latest and greatest 1Password has to offer, but we have bills to pay same as anyone and we cannot continue to build and improve 1Password without revenue. Our team has put a lot of work into 1Password 7 already with even more to come and we firmly believe the great work they've done is well worth the cost of a paid upgrade. Ultimately, you may well feel the same. We hope you keep an open mind, and if you decide it's not worth the cost to you, that's obviously your call. Just stay safe out there. That's all we ask. :chuffed:

Alt68er

Hi and thanks for your comments which I understand very well.

On the other there is a customer (me) who paid for a license about 1 year ago and now (or when v7 is released) has to pay again to get a well working software. I really don't feel well with this situation. If I had known that support for v4 will be discontinued one year later and then released a new version I would have waited until then and not burned my money.

I understand very well the situation of a company like yours but it seems that you don't understand well the situation of some of your customers. Don't be surprised when you loose some customers due to your company's support resp. bugfix policy.

I think I'll change to another password manager, may to the FREE Sticky Password.

Lars

@Alt68er

On the other there is a customer (me) who paid for a license about 1 year ago and now (or when v7 is released) has to pay again to get a well working software.

I'm curious how often you think it would be appropriate for a developer - any developer - to charge for new versions? I don't want to get into a philosophical discussion about supporting software via purchase, but we're well within the software industry's practices by charging for and developing for newer versions between 12-24 months. We hope you'll join us for the improvements and new features in 1Password 7 for Windows, but as long as you're using something for password management, we'll be happy.