Agile Keychain to OPVault conversion: not a smooth process

jhurwitz

This is not a question, but rather feedback on my recent Agile Keychain to OPVault migration experience.

I've been using 1Password for 5+ years, and for that entire time, have been syncing a single vault to Dropbox. Since the vault was created so long ago, it's of course an Agile Keychain file.

I never received any communications (either by email, or in-product) from 1Password telling me that this format had been deprecated, even though I see from your blog post that you've been wanting people to switch since at least 2015. Generally, it's best practice to directly ask users to migrate at least several months before a hard deprecation occurs.

Luckily for me, I read the changelog every time I updated 1Password. I'm probably an outlier in this regard -- I assume most users update without reading the changelog. In the most recent update, I happened to notice the following item:

Please note that if any vaults are syncing to an Agile Keychain, sync will be disabled upon running this beta. You'll be required to convert to an OPVault. This is Agile Keychain's official retirement. Raise a glass for Agile Keychain, it served us well for years but it's time to say goodbye.

Because of this, after updating 1Password I opened settings to check my sync settings. I was quite surprised to see that -- with no in-product warnings whatsoever -- my vault was no longer syncing to Dropbox. Again, it's best practice to directly communicate to users when something they use has been deprecated. Furthermore, it also wasn't obvious to me what I was supposed to do to re-enable sync.

Only because I had read the changelog, I had some terms I could google. Googling "agilekeychain opvault conversion" led me to this support article. (Again, had I not read the changelog, I both wouldn't have noticed that syncing stopped, and I wouldn't have known how to fix it.)

I followed these instructions, but ran into some snags.

First, step 2 is no longer applicable to 1Password 7.0. There is no "Enable OPVault" item in the help menu. After I realized that, converting from AgileKeychain to OPVault on my first laptop went smoothly.

Next, I went to convert on my iPhone. I was able to follow the instructions correctly, but the first attempt to sync failed with an error message. (Unfortunately I did not screenshot this, nor do I remember exactly what it said.) I clicked the "sync now" button a second time, and it failed again. I then clicked "sync now" a third time, and it finally succeeded.

Finally, I had to deal with my second laptop. Again, I followed the instructions given in the support article. When re-enabling sync, I wasn't sure if I was supposed to select the Dropbox folder itself, or the 1Password.opvault file. Your support article on setting up Dropbox sync says to select the "Dropbox folder," so I tried that. Unfortunately, this tried to establish a new vault (in Dropbox/Apps/1Password/1Password.opvault, or something) rather than using my existing vault (in Dropbox/1Password.opvault).

After realizing this, I cancelled out and tried again, this time selecting the existing 1Password.opvault file. After clicking the sync button, nothing happened (no loading spinner or anything) for a few seconds, so I tried clicking it a second time, then a third time. Finally, after about 10-20 seconds, I received an error message. (Again, I forgot to screenshot it, and forget exactly what it said.) This same thing happened a second time. Then, just like with iOS, on the third attempt it worked.

Finally, I wanted to test that syncing was working correctly between my two laptops. With 1Password open on both laptops, I would edit the name of a login (eg, from "Gmail" to "Gmail1") and wait for the change to propagate to the other laptop. Syncing mostly works... but not entirely. On the very first login alphabetically, changes sync properly from my second to my first laptop, but not vice versa. (Changes sync fine on all other logins I've tested, in both directions.) I thought maybe there was some inconsistent state with this login, so I duplicated it, and deleted the original login item, but the problem persists on this new copy.

To give more details: if I edit the login on my first laptop, I correctly see Dropbox syncing on that laptop, then Dropbox syncing on the second laptop. I'll even get a notification on my second laptop that says band_A.js was changed (as I do when sync works correctly on other logins), but don't see any changes reflected in the 1Password UI. I still haven't solved this issue, and am quite stumped. I'm also concerned that sync may be failing in other ways that I have yet to notice.

I'm quite frustrated at how difficult of a process this was. Users less technically savvy than I would almost certainly not have figured it out. I realize you want new users to use the subscription-based 1Password service, but I would love if you still took the care to support us legacy users on Dropbox (and iCloud) sync.

It sounds like you tried to make this a smoother process. The changelog for beta 16 even says:

Agile Keychain files can be converted to OPVault.

As best as I can tell, this conversion has been possible for years. I can only assume that this changelog entry is supposed to mean that Agile Keychain files can now be automatically converted to OPVault. I wish -- that would be amazing! Unfortunately, the process I experienced was far from automatic.

Just passing along this feedback in hopes that this can get worked out while 1Password 7 is still in beta, so that the general user base can have a much smoother and less painful migration process than I did.

AGAlumB

@jhurwitz: Thank you! I hear you, but I can't say I agree that it would be appropriate — or appreciated — if we emailed people to tell them about a newer data format. Kind of boring to almost everyone, actually (present company excluded perhaps!) Also, we don't have many of our customers' email addresses (did you purchase through the App Store?), and those we do have we only contact via email if they've explicitly opted-in to the newsletter.

You're not wrong about any of this, but if you were migrated to OPVault, you're using a beta. Our support site reflects the versions currently shipping to customers, not prerelease versions that are subject to change. We'll continue to refine the process over the course of the beta and have guides in place for when 1Password 7 is released officially, so I'll pass your feedback on to the rest of the team for consideration in that context. Thanks for sharing your experience, and for participating in the beta in the first place! :chuffed:

Regarding your sync issue, we created 1Password.com because we don't have control over the experience when you're using a 3rd party. That's just the reality. However, it sounds like the issue you're having is Dropbox having sync conflicts. You will probably find "conflicted copy" files if you look inside the vault on the Dropbox website. 1Password does not read these, only the data which conforms to its native file formats. But you may find your missing data by renaming these to remove that "conflicted copy" part. however, it's probably best to simply reset the apps if you have a known-good copy of your 1Password data on one device so you can sync it to the others. That may help Dropbox out a bit, since it won't have changes in multiple places it's trying to reconcile. Let me know what you find! :)

jhurwitz

I hear you, but I can't say I agree that it would be appropriate — or appreciated — if we emailed people to tell them about a newer data format.

Then at the very least, put a giant red banner across the top of the 1Password window saying "YOUR SYNCING HAS STOPPED. CLICK HERE FOR INSTRUCTIONS TO RESUME SYNCING." The fact that there was zero messaging to me in-product about syncing having stopped is honestly unacceptable.

However, it sounds like the issue you're having is Dropbox having sync conflicts. You will probably find "conflicted copy" files if you look inside the vault on the Dropbox website.

I just inspected the contents of 1Password.opvault. There are no conflicted copies. This is a 1Password bug, not a Dropbox bug. As I pointed out in my original post, the Dropbox notifications about band_A.js syncing show that Dropbox sync is working correctly; 1Password is at fault here. If you still don't believe me, I'd be happy to SHA1 hash the files to check if they're the same on both laptops.

Ben

Then at the very least, put a giant red banner across the top of the 1Password window saying "YOUR SYNCING HAS STOPPED. CLICK HERE FOR INSTRUCTIONS TO RESUME SYNCING." The fact that there was zero messaging to me in-product about syncing having stopped is honestly unacceptable.

We do actually use the built-in system notifications to alert customers to this fact (worded similarly to your suggestion). Do you perhaps have notifications turned off? I’m trying to find a screenshot of the notification and failing, but I promise it is there. :)

To give more details: if I edit the login on my first laptop, I correctly see Dropbox syncing on that laptop, then Dropbox syncing on the second laptop. I'll even get a notification on my second laptop that says band_A.js was changed (as I do when sync works correctly on other logins), but don't see any changes reflected in the 1Password UI. I still haven't solved this issue, and am quite stumped. I'm also concerned that sync may be failing in other ways that I have yet to notice.

If you quit and relaunch 1Password do the changes appear? If you make a change on the second laptop do you see similar notifiations of changes in Dropbox on the first laptop?

Ben

Ben

Okay, so the message isn’t as detailed as I was remembering, but it is there:

We are working on a more detailed message.

Ben

ref: apple-1213

jhurwitz

Interesting, I don't think I ever got that notification. I just opened the notifications tray on my Mac (which shows all my notifications from the past ~week that I haven't yet explicitly dismissed), and I don't see it there. So unless I clicked on the notification to dismiss it without ever remembering seeing or clicking it, I don't think I ever got one.

I'm at work now, but can dig more into the syncing issues later.

Given that we're already onto the release candidates for 1Password 7: is the plan when it's released to the general public to break syncing for anyone on Agile Keychain files and force them to upgrade manually? If so I think there's still a long road ahead of you (more prominent notification that syncing has stopped, link to instructions, update instructions in help center, fix problems I identified on iOS and macOS that required me to have to try re-enabling sync multiple times, etc) before it feels to me like it would be ready for the general public, but of course that's not my call to make.

Ben

@jhurwitz,

I’ll certainly pass the feedback along to the rest of the team. As it stands: yes, anyone who is using Agile Keychain currently will no longer be syncing after upgrading to 1Password 7, and will need to re-set up syncing.

Ben

Daniel Moravec

I just had hard drives go out on both of my computers in the same week, my backups were shaky. Therefore I had to update to 1Password 7 via downloading the file through the website. My file is an .agilekeychain as well, and I too noticed the new .opvault format. The issue that brought me to this article is that 1Password 7 asks for my file to sync with, but it refuses to recognize the .agilekeychain file and that is what caused me to get stuck wondering if there is an easy way to convert .agilekeychain to .opvault.

So what is the solution to this exactly? Just change the file extension to .opvault or is there a conversion process? As you could understand, I'm quite wary about messing with this data file, as its loss to me would be a punch in the belly for certain. If there is a quick support link to a smooth Agile Keychain to OPVault conversion, that would be helpful.

rudy

@Daniel Moravec,

If you've already setup a standalone vault in 1Password 7 then the easiest way to get the agilekeychain's data into 1Password is via the File -> Import menu item. Under there you'll choose "1Password Keychain" to pick the agile keychain to import. From there you can then setup sync using Prefs -> Sync to cause 1Password to create an opvault bundle that you can then use to sync with other computers/devices.

bluesand22

Hi 1Password,
Your current conversion is a pain in the ass. I've been your customer since the day you're not yet even popular, and I even recommend you to my friends. I have purchased your app for my Macbook, iphone and Samsung phone, it was working great until you start fixing the things that's not even broken just so you can rip off your new customers with subscription plans. I have no problem with that, but what about those customers who have purchased your platform way back 2014? What are your plans for them since right now we are being force to convert our databases to opvault without even a heads up? I have sent you an email so kindly reply me on that. And lastly, what are we supposed to do with 1password 7? where can we get the logins ? or what are the steps to those who purchased your platform since 2014?

AGAlumB

@bluesand22: We're not having the same conversation in multiple places. That does a disservice to everyone else who's waiting for a response. Please consider that in the future. Also, in 1Password for Mac, "conversion" to OPVault is literally just a checkbox in the Help menu.

jnjunior

It looks like the license file I got when I purchased 1Password for Mac a long time ago doesn't work with 1Password 7. Am I understanding that correctly? I ask because I got a new laptop and am re-installing everything and I am having the same issues as the people above and in addition, can't get my license to work

AGAlumB

@jnjunior: That's correct. If you purchased an older version, 1Password 7 is a paid upgrade. Alternatively you can get it (and everything else) as part of a 1Password.com membership. Otherwise you can install the version you paid for and continue using that. I hope this helps. Be sure to let me know if you have any other questions! :)

atomicmit

I have been searching for how to switch to opvault and NEVER in a million years would I have looked in Help -> Tools. Next time put it in settings as it is really a setting... Or put it in both. BTW when I search OPVault in help it finds nothing. THIS IS A BUG IN 6.8.9 Mac App Store.

AGAlumB

@atomicmit: Nope. Not a bug at all. It's there because OPVault has been enabled by default for years now. We don't want people finding it too easily and disabling it inadvertently. ;) And if someone needs help with that, we're here to assist since there can be compatibility considerations if they're still using AgileKeychain -- likely because of recently migrating from a very old version.

mikekep

For starters, I hope that the 1Password Team Members can stop being so argumentative here. I have been a 1Password customer for about 10 years. I saw a notification on my Android app just yesterday, and it was the FIRST time I had ever hear of OPVault. I found this thread and began looking into this. I still have 1Password v6 synced to Dropbox on my mac and it works fine. Sure enough I went into my 1Pass DB folder and there is an OPVault file, that has not been updated for 2 months. I edited an old login and watched the agilekeychain file update. AND, under the secret hidden help menu, it is checked "Enable OPVault for Dropbox and folder sync", yet clearly it isn't syncing or using that file.

So, 1Password staff, instead of telling every customer on here that they are wrong and implying that we are stupid, why don't you accept that this process is not ideal, and there are some gaps in understanding and functionality. If you can't respond in a helpful way, then I suggest that you ask someone else in the company to chime in before you keep defending your work at the expense of creating a negative reflection on the company as a whole.

At this stage, I have no idea how to convert to OPVault, which apparently has been in effect for 4-5 years without me even knowing what it is.

AGAlumB

@mikekep: Not everyone has the same set of devices and versions. If you'll tell us specifically what you need assistance with, we can absolutely respond in a helpful way. But frankly your comments are pretty unhelpful and argumentative. That's unfortunate, and pretty ironic under the circumstances. :(

I do apologize though for the confusion, since this is actually pretty straightforward: if you're already using OPVault in 1Password on any of your devices, you don't need to convert anything; all you need to do is select the same vault in 1Password on all your devices. For example, if you're using 1Password for Android version 7 (it sounds like you are), it will have prompted you to convert and all you had to do was accept that. If you did, then you're done there. You just need to configure your other devices to use that same vault. If you're having trouble though, and you let us know the specifics (errors, versions involved, etc.) I'm sure we can help get your sorted. :)

mikekep

How do I convert my vault to OPVault on Mac version 6.8.9, since it has already failed 4 times on Android. I disagree that this is "actually pretty straightforward"

AGAlumB

@mikekep: I hope you'll forgive me if I'm being dense, but didn't you say in your previous message that you already have an OPVault? That may be worth looking into.

Otherwise, if you're, say, doing the conversion today, in 1Password for Mac, you just need to disable sync, make sure the OPVault option is enabled in Help > Tools, and then re-enable sync to create a new vault (which will be in the OPVault format in that case).

If you'll let us know what "it has already failed 4 times on Android" means, we could probably be more helpful and/or improve the experience going forward though. As I mentioned a short while ago, knowing the error and specific versions involved is important. Thanks!

Daniel Moravec

Have to agree with @mikekep here. I just did a search in my email and also didn't get any notification over the many many years I've been a customer of 1Password as well and there wasn't anything ever emailed to me matching "opvault"

Had I received such a message, I'd have certainly at least looked at the instructions and been aware of the change. No we're here eating up customer support hours when a simple email would have sufficed. The more frustrating moment for me is when I updated to 1Password 7 and was even more confused by the read-only mode. I assumed something had just plain went wrong with my file and the agilekeychain vs opvault, when in actuality the team has decided to force membership fees now for the latest updates.

It would have been far less confusing had there been a guide for this, but seems us old users who are now just upgrading our opvault are a rare case? Anyways, done with this thread now, where do I unsub...

AGAlumB

We don't have the email addresses of most 1Password users, and frankly I'm not sure I see the sense in spamming all of them about vault formats even if we did.

Kariem

Hi,

Got the prompt on my Android to upgrade to opvault today. I regrettably agreed, which lead to some issues. Long story short, I now have an opvault syncing successfully with DropBox on windows (1Password version 4.6.2.626). I am using the latest version on Android. After the conversion, syncing failed on android. As per the error details isntructions, I had to uninstall and re-install the android app to sync to the new opvault. I still get a sync failed error after picking the opvault on DropBox and entering my master password on android: "Sync error: The data folder 1Password is configured to sync with no longer exists".

How can I access that vault from Android?

AGAlumB

@Kariem: Your original vault will still be where you left it unless you deleted it yourself. If you change the filename from *legacyagilekeychain to *.agilekeychain you can open that directly in 1Password. Keep in mind that when you convert to the newer vault format, you'll need to point all of your devices to the new vault, as indicated in the instructions during that process.

Kariem

I am pointing my android device to the new valut but it fails to sync with the above error. Why can't I access that from my android device?

AGAlumB

@Kariem: I think there's a misunderstanding. Just to clarify, you already have 1Password for Android setup, correct? You're not setting the app up for the first time on this device?

"Sync error: The data folder 1Password is configured to sync with no longer exists" is telling you that the vault which you currently have 1Password for Android setup to sync with cannot be found in the location you chose.

Can you confirm that you're able to open your 1Password data in for Windows? If so, make a note of its file path, remove the app from your Android device, and then reinstall it to set it up with the same vault you're using on the PC.

Kariem

I had it already setup correctly on Android with the old vault format. But I had to reinstall it as per the instructions when I got this syncing error after converting the vault to the new format. I can access the same (new) vault without any problem on Windows. Verified the path under dropbox/apps/1password and it is the same vault I am trying to access from android, but that (on android) leads to a sync failure.

Uninstalled and then reinstalled 1password on Android but I still get the same error when I try to sync it with that new vault.

AGAlumB

@Kariem: Thanks for clarifying. I'm sorry for the trouble. At this point, the best thing to do will be to restart your device, reproduce the same error, and then generate a diagnostic report so we can look at the logs to determine exactly what is happening:

https://support.1password.com/diagnostics/

Please send it to support@1password.com and add the following Support ID (including the square brackets) to the subject of your diagnostics email before sending:

[#ANJ-58285-972]

If you’re reading this and you are not Kariem, this Support ID is for Kariem only. Please ask us for your own if you also need help.

This will link it to our current conversation. Once we see it we should be able to better assist you. Thanks in advance!

ref: ANJ-58285-972

Kariem

@brenty Thanks for your help. However, I can't do that. As per the instructions I got when I first got the error, I uninstalled and then reinstalled the app on andorid. Now when I try to connect it to the vault from dropbox, I get the sync error and I can't go beyond that point on the app. So, I have no access to the app's menu to be able to generate the diagnostics report.

AGAlumB

@Kariem: Did you try using the original vault, as I suggested earlier?

Kariem

Yes, but I can access that vault without issues. I am not sure how that would help me here.

AGAlumB

@Kariem: Maybe I'm misunderstanding now, but doesn't that have your data? It seems like being able to access your data is the key, and probably why you contacted us in the first place.

If so, I'd recommend using 1Password for Windows version 7 to do the conversion instead:

https://1password.com/downloads/

You'd then be able to use the OPVault in both 1Password for Android version 7 and 1Password for Windows version 4. Obviously I'd recommend upgrading to the current version of the Windows app as well, but it isn't necessary and it would work to at least convert the data.