Feel of the new Mac app

[Deleted User]

In contrast to the old app, which felt like a native app built by developers and designers who understood and used macOS, 1Password 7 feels like an app designed first and foremost to be cross-platform. Some specific examples:

• Blue sidebar with huge white arrow, uses custom controls and contrasting colors that are foreign to macOS design
• Auto-updater as a separate app reminds me of Microsoft Office autoupdater; why not use Sparkle like everyone else?
• Preferences pane that resizes by itself and randomly does and doesn’t show the advanced preferences
• Navigating 1Password Mini feels like I'm navigating Windows Explorer in list mode

If you agree, please add your voice below. If you disagree, let me know why you think I'm wrong.

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1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Tanax

I think it still feels very native. However, I'm also wondering what it matters if it "looks" native or not? IMO aesthetics and function should go first and IMO it looks incredible! Very logical and easy to use with straight forward and clean design :)

[Deleted User]

I agree 1Password 7 in many ways doesn't look very native if you look at individual design elements, but the general feel, for me is still native.

Now, a good comparison could be MacPass (https://macpassapp.org) which strictly follows macOS design guidelines (including support for tabs), but you could argue it looks a little dry and lacks an identity. I can appreciate that type of design as well.

As for the updater, I believe 1Password used Sparkle at some point but AgileBits had need for more functionality than Sparkle could provide.

Yeah, the preference window has always been a bit weird. I have just come to accept that. To be fair, I see this weird resizing in Safari as well, where certain panes oddly expand just a few pixels to the right. Since switching to a subscription, the mystery of the disappearing Advanced tab resolved itself however since a bunch of preference panes related to standalone vaults disappear.

AGAlumB

@Xe997, @Tanax: Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you're liking it for the most part, but we'll keep working to refine it -- and address those bugs. :fearful:

@whiteblade: I feel like I can understand where you're coming from, but I think that "non-native" is the wrong word; it sounds like what you're saying is that 1Password doesn't blend in. :)

That's fair, but I'm not sure that it should. 1Password is very, very native. I use a lot of decidedly non-native apps (Electron stuff, browser-based apps, etc.) and they have a very different look and feel to 1Password. I wish they looked and felt like 1Password!

I can definitely appreciate the appeal of uniformity, but I do think that 1Password is exceptional -- not just because I work for AgileBits, but that's why I do. And if you look back at 1Password's history, there have been similar criticisms all throughout. It's always been a native Mac app, but you're right: we do like to do custom stuff in some places. For example, the lock screen! I don't think that anyone would complain about that nowadays, but it's by far the most non-standard UI in the app. Yet it's appropriate, I think, but more importantly, we're all used to it now.

What you're seeing in 1Password today won't look the same in the coming years, as we'll continue to iterate on the design to improve what works and get rid of what doesn't.

You're right that we're designing these days with multiple platforms in mind. That's one things that's changed a bit. One of the chief criticisms we've gotten over the years is that 1Password is so different on different devices in spite of being cross-platform for nearly a decade now. We don't want it to look the same, and it doesn't. But we think it's important that it have a consistency of identity and general UI because our customers have overwhelmingly told us they want to feel right at home in 1Password on any device. We're not there yet, but we're working on it. But you'll still notice platform-specific features and UI elements, because we're using all the latest native tools on each.

To go into the specifics:

Blue sidebar with huge white arrow, uses custom controls and contrasting colors that are foreign to macOS design

I'm not sure I understand why these are bad things. Maybe you just don't like colours. I can relate. I used to be religious about using the "graphite" theme and even skinning apps to be more monotone. And I absolutely _hated _the default Windows XP themes. Used to make my own. But I find 1Password 7 to be tasteful. And I've grown to appreciate the default coloured macOS gumdrops. I think we'll continue to tweak the design over time (the arrow does seem to pop up too much), and hopefully it will grow on you too. :)

Auto-updater as a separate app reminds me of Microsoft Office autoupdater; why not use Sparkle like everyone else?

A lot of reasons, but mostly we don't want to be limited by software we don't control both so we can have the features we want and not get saddled with security issues or bugs we can't fix. And now with 1Password.com, where we can provide the experience from top to bottom, it would really be a weird things to be stuck in that situation for updates. They're a critical part of our ability to give our customers the best experience we can.

Preferences pane that resizes by itself and randomly does and doesn’t show the advanced preferences

Yeah, that's something we need to fix. :sweat:

ref: OPM-5494

Navigating 1Password Mini feels like I'm navigating Windows Explorer in list mode

I'm wondering if you've used Windows recently. :lol: But in all seriousness, I don't get that vibe at all. I use Windows a lot, and while I rather like Windows 10, I would love it if it worked more like 1Password. It sounds like you're saying that you don't like Windows Explorer, and that 1Password reminds you of that somehow. I'm not sure I see it, but it seems like that's more of a personal association than something we can fix. But we'll continue to improve the design, even as you grow accustomed to it over time. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts. :chuffed:

[Deleted User]

@brenty

it sounds like what you're saying is that 1Password doesn't blend in.

That's a more accurate description of my complaint. I am talking about it looking like a native app, not whether it is built using native technologies.

we do like to do custom stuff in some places. For example, the lock screen!

I'm also not complaining about the use of custom elements (as mentioned, the lock icon is iconic and pretty).

Maybe you just don't like colours. I can relate. I used to be religious about using the "graphite" theme and even skinning apps to be more monotone.

While that's a fairly accurate assessment, it could use some refinement. I think making the content stand out is not only ok, it's what should happen. The issue I have is not that there is (a IMHO ugly shade of) blue in the app, but rather that the sidebar is the colored element - drawing your attention away from the actual content.

Upon further reflection, I have a couple main issues with the sidebar:

1. It seems focused on people who have multiple vaults and switch between them. While that might be a decent percentage of your users, it is annoying as a single-vault user to have the vault name and icon front and center in huge type. It might be nice if you detected that there was only one vault in use and shrunk the icon/label accordingly or even removed it completely.

2. Whitespace: Compared with v6 everything is much more spread out. Not only does that mean that I can see less on my screen at once (leading to more scrolling around and collapsing/expanding elements), but some stuff that would previously have been visible is no longer. Long tag names get cut off, and the icon for each tag is not only useless in my opinion- I don't see anyone possibly using the tiny (barely readable) initials on a tag to identify it- but also further cuts off my tag names.

3. As already mentioned, the color draws your eye to the wrong part of the app, and also contrasts so much with the other panes that it almost feels like a separate window.

For an example of what in my opinion is a useful sidebar that allows you to get in, find what you are looking for, and get out with minimal hassle or distraction I would recommend the Finder sidebar. I personally prefer the "hide/show" disclosure over the arrows seen in other Mac apps, but the disclosure triangles in Mail are also a standard way to do it. Not to mention that the Mini sidebar in v7 is also pretty great and should be used as inspiration.

A lot of reasons, but mostly we don't want to be limited by software we don't control both so we can have the features we want and not get saddled with security issues or bugs we can't fix.

Sparkle is open source, so you can contribute or even fork it if the Sparkle contributors and 1Password devs disagree about features/direction. To me it just feels like "not built by me" syndrome.

It sounds like you're saying that you don't like Windows Explorer, and that 1Password reminds you of that somehow.

Let me expand on the specifics. I dislike the fact that Mini uses a million different shades of gray and really ugly contrasting lines to divide between the different sections (it should be noted that I'm using dark mode). I also think the grey cut-out to show where you highlighted something after you have used the arrow key to go "right" or "left" is ugly. Not to mention that Mini seems to ignore my preferred highlight color (as specified in macOS preferences). Probably nothing to do with how windows explorer actually works, and just an association in my mind. You are right about that.

Anyway, thanks for the response that addressed my issues, even if I may disagree with the specifics.

steve28236

I like the aesthetics of 1P7. There are many different viewpoints out there.

Ben

Thanks for the kind words, @steve23094. :)

Ben

[Deleted User]

May last comment seems to have gotten caught in moderation limbo for a while and only just now appeared. Any interest in addressing any of it @Ben ?

AGAlumB

That's a more accurate description of my complaint. I am talking about it looking like a native app, not whether it is built using native technologies.

@whiteblade: Thanks for clarifying — and for putting up with my poor mind reading and presumption to speak for you. :blush:

I'm also not complaining about the use of custom elements (as mentioned, the lock icon is iconic and pretty).

I'm glad you like it too. Somehow the design team has made it "friendly", I think, when a lock screen like that could easily feel cold and hostile. :)

While that's a fairly accurate assessment, it could use some refinement. I think making the content stand out is not only ok, it's what should happen. The issue I have is not that there is (a IMHO ugly shade of) blue in the app, but rather that the sidebar is the colored element - drawing your attention away from the actual content.

Thanks for bearing with me, and taking the time to articulate it better than I could. You make an interesting point about the sidebar. We'll definitely keep an eye out for similar feedback.

Upon further reflection, I have a couple main issues with the sidebar:
1) It seems focused on people who have multiple vaults and switch between them. While that might be a decent percentage of your users, it is annoying as a single-vault user to have the vault name and icon front and center in huge type. It might be nice if you detected that there was only one vault in use and shrunk the icon/label accordingly or even removed it completely.

I actually have the opposite impression of the sidebar. As someone who uses many vaults, I sometimes wish I could see them there at a glance without needed to open a "drawer" to do so. But I agree with you that it isn't necessary to display account/vault names when only one exists.

ref: apple-1389

2) Whitespace: Compared with v6 everything is much more spread out. Not only does that mean that I can see less on my screen at once (leading to more scrolling around and collapsing/expanding elements), but some stuff that would previously have been visible is no longer. Long tag names get cut off, and the icon for each tag is not only useless in my opinion- I don't see anyone possibly using the tiny (barely readable) initials on a tag to identify it- but also further cuts off my tag names.

Maybe we're just getting older, but it's something we'll continue to discuss to see if we can make better use of space — especially on smaller displays. I do actually love the tag and item initials though and have heard similar feedback from others. I don't think those are going away.

3) As already mentioned, the color draws your eye to the wrong part of the app, and also contrasts so much with the other panes that it almost feels like a separate window.

I personally like that the sidebar is dark because when I'm not paying attention to it, it sort of fades into the background. It's definitely something we'll keep in mind going forward though. Thanks for letting us know you find it to be a distraction!

For an example of what in my opinion is a useful sidebar that allows you to get in, find what you are looking for, and get out with minimal hassle or distraction I would recommend the Finder sidebar. I personally prefer the "hide/show" disclosure over the arrows seen in other Mac apps, but the disclosure triangles in Mail are also a standard way to do it. Not to mention that the Mini sidebar in v7 is also pretty great and should be used as inspiration.

The hide/show arrow is a topic of debate. We do want people to know it's there, but it probably does show up a bit too much. We'll see if we can strike a better balance. I'm glad that you're liking how it's handled in mini. We'll see if it makes sense to use that older style in the main app again.

Sparkle is open source, so you can contribute or even fork it if the Sparkle contributors and 1Password devs disagree about features/direction. To me it just feels like "not built by me" syndrome.

I'm sorry if my earlier comments came off that way. The "problem" with open source (I hate to use that word, but I'm not sure of a better one in this context) is that, while you're right that pretty much anyone can contribute, and that is a good thing in many ways, at the same time, it ends up serving, arguably, too many masters, if everyone submits the changes that they want. So what we'd probably end up doing would be to fork it and make all of the changes we want to best serve 1Password's specific needs...and at that point we might as well just write our own updated, which we've done. Open source is great, but not really ever the perfect tool for any task; rather, it ends up being a good enough tool for many different tasks. And if we settle for "good enough", 1Password won't ever reach its full potential, since it's a very specific sort of app. :)

Let me expand on the specifics. I dislike the fact that Mini uses a million different shades of gray and really ugly contrasting lines to divide between the different sections (it should be noted that I'm using dark mode). I also think the grey cut-out to show where you highlighted something after you have used the arrow key to go "right" or "left" is ugly. Not to mention that Mini seems to ignore my preferred highlight color (as specified in macOS preferences). Probably nothing to do with how windows explorer actually works, and just an association in my mind. You are right about that.

Anyway, thanks for the response that addressed my issues, even if I may disagree with the specifics.

Likewise, it's a pleasure to discuss this with you, and others who are similarly passionate about 1Password as we are. Thank you for taking the time to give such thoughtful feedback. :chuffed:

robfol

1Password Mini to me is a disaster, ridiculously large for a dropdown, large and unnecessary sidebar, much harder to enter info and navigate. The old version was way better and fit for purpose. Sad to see 1P go backwards on usability.

robfol

Agree there is WAY too much white space overall as commented above. Most entries and especially data-rich ones like say a software license on 7 take up much more height than one on 6 and needs to be scrolled vertically, yet horizontal space is totally wasted.

Why on earth have you stacked info vertically when there is no need to do so.

1P6 ONE LINE: licensed to - alsoft@mail.com

1P7 TWO LINES:
licensed to (this text is also unreadably small)
alsoft@mail.com

Again 1P seems to be going backwards in usability

With this and the HUGE 1P Mini dropdown, I guess you all work on 27inch screens and have no need to save space or are 25 year olds with 20/20 vision?

Lots of nice stuff, but many things will keep me on V6 on my 12 Inch MacBook

AGAlumB

1Password Mini to me is a disaster, ridiculously large for a dropdown,

@robfol: That's why it's not a dropdown. ;)

large and unnecessary sidebar, much harder to enter info and navigate.

Can you tell me where you're having trouble with navigation and entry? We'll see what we can do to improve it for both keyboard and mouse users.

The old version was way better and fit for purpose. Sad to see 1P go backwards on usability.

Can you elaborate on that? What, in your opinion, was better about the old version, and what's worse about the new one for your usage?

Agree there is WAY too much white space overall as commented above.

How is whitespace negative impacting your workflow?

Most entries and especially data-rich ones like say a software license on 7 take up much more height than one on 6 and needs to be scrolled vertically, yet horizontal space is totally wasted.

I disagree with most of that, but certainly we could make it a bit more dense in some places.

Why on earth have you stacked info vertically when there is no need to do so.
1P6 ONE LINE: licensed to - alsoft@mail.com
1P7 TWO LINES:
licensed to (this text is also unreadably small)
alsoft@mail.com
Again 1P seems to be going backwards in usability

It seems like making the font larger would not help reduce the number of lines used. And I'm not sure it's possible for us to keep more on a single line while also making the window smaller. But we'll continue to iterate on the design.

With this and the HUGE 1P Mini dropdown, I guess you all work on 27inch screens and have no need to save space or are 25 year olds with 20/20 vision?

Nope. We've got a lot of people using MacBooks, MacBook Airs, and MacBook Pros.

Lots of nice stuff, but many things will keep me on V6 on my 12 Inch MacBook

I'm glad that you're still enjoying 1Password 6, and that you're liking some aspects of 1Password 7. We'll keep working to make the new version better, and perhaps you'll like it more in the future as a result. Thanks for the feedback! :)

[Deleted User]

@brenty

I think I win on this one... even Dave finds it a distraction ;)

"The first thing that grabs you is the stunning new sidebar. It draws you in with its bold dark theme..." @ https://blog.agilebits.com/2018/05/22/1password-7-for-mac-the-best-ever/

AGAlumB

To be fair, Dave finds everything shiny and new a bit distracting. So you're all in good company! :lol: