Like many Mac users, I was greatly disappointed to read that 1Password is moving to Electron. I firmly believe that Electron is a bad framework for app development, and the 1Password 8 beta does not change this opinion. I’ve compiled a list of issues, as I see them. Some are endemic to Electron, while others are simply stylistic choices by the dev team. I will try to omit complaints that are purely personal preference, such as specific color usage. The lack of rubberband/elastic scrolling is jarring and unpleasant. There isn’t enough visual feedback that the window is out of focus. In particular, the “New Item” toolbar button should fade to a lighter blue when unfocused. Many interactions in the app do not have the animations they should, including list expansions, menu displays, checkbox toggling, and modal dialogue appear/disappear. Unnecessary reliance on modal dialogues is antithetical to native Mac app development. In particular, the “Preferences” and “About” windows should be … well, windows, not modal dialogues. It is unusual for a Mac app to have the “About” page be part of the preferences dialogue. When unfocused, 1PW 8 lacks hover states. In order to copy a field when the app is unfocused, you have to click into the window, then click the field again. 1PW 7 only requires a single click and properly displays hover state when unfocused. 1PW 8 no longer shows the number of items in a tag/category. There is seemingly no longer an easy way to mark or unmark an item as a favorite. The account name at the top of the sidebar has a disclosure triangle in the down position, indicating that clicking it will collapse the sidebar entries for that account. Instead, clicking it brings up a popover menu with various actions. (I don’t know whether this behavior is different when you have more than one account. My point is that this behavior is unusual for this type of UI element.) The app uses almost 2x the memory footprint of 1PW 7 and 10x(!) the idle CPU usage. The app is noticeably slower. Scrolling a long list introduces a delay in displaying icons that is not present in 1PW 7. Additionally, there is flicker and occasional slow loading when changing filters, vaults, and tags. (1PW 7 also has flicker at times, notably when changing login items. It’s far more prominent in 8, however.) There’s too much list padding. With windows of identical dimensions, 1PW 7 shows me 10.5 items; 1PW 8 shows me only 7.5. Are these things ultimately minor? Yeah. Complaining about a preferences window becoming a modal dialogue is about as first-world a problem as you can get. At the same time, I’m paying money for this, and now it feels like I’m going to spend money on a downgrade. 1Password 8 is probably the most native-feeling and best Electron app I’ve used, but that’s like saying the McDonald’s by Disneyland is the best McDonald’s I’ve eaten at. I’ve been a 1Password user for years (I started with 1Password 3) and always held the app up as the only app I unreservedly considered worth a subscription. Now it’s pretty likely I’ll move to something else. 1Password Version: 80200056 Extension Version: Not Provided OS Version: macOS 11.5.1

I uninstalled 1p7 the day the mac beta came out and forced myself to use 1p8. Today I just reinstalled 1p7 and went back. Holy S***. You almost instantly forget just how much better 1p7 is. I challenge a single dev working at 1P to truthfully tell me 1p8 is better in ANY way. I honestly would love to hear a single feature that's better. It's jaw dropping the difference when you use 1p8 for a few days and then switch back. Also side note, god damn did I miss 1Pmini. <3 my baby is BACK!

@tiltowaitt thank you for that detailed list! Much of the fit and finish is still to come, and I know in particular we've been investigating some performance issues recently. @blankspace here's a thread: https://twitter.com/4german/status/1425466303423434764 My favorite new feature day to day is vault collections. I can keep the stuff I use the most in a collection and not have to see all the stuff I share with my parents that I rarely use. The quick access (mini) feature in 1Password 8 is still really new, so we've got plenty on our list there.

I challenge a single dev working at 1P to truthfully tell me 1p8 is better in ANY way. I honestly would love to hear a single feature that's better. It's jaw dropping the difference when you use 1p8 for a few days and then switch back. After using 1P8 for a while (well, this entire year) I would never go back to version 7. It just feels outdated and slow. There are too many features to list but my top 3: Greatly improved item editing experience File attachments that can be added to any item now Item location bar that shows the people that have to this item

And another feature that was added to the nightly build today: https://twitter.com/roustem/status/1428136972095213573?s=20

I would add that Quick Access is shaping up to be a big power boost. I am already loving it even without everything being wired up yet.

Former Member

4 years ago

1Password 8 - Non-native feel

Like many Mac users, I was greatly disappointed to read that 1Password is moving to Electron. I firmly believe that Electron is a bad framework for app development, and the 1Password 8 beta does not change this opinion. I’ve compiled a list of issues, as I see them. Some are endemic to Electron, while others are simply stylistic choices by the dev team. I will try to omit complaints that are purely personal preference, such as specific color usage.

The lack of rubberband/elastic scrolling is jarring and unpleasant.
There isn’t enough visual feedback that the window is out of focus. In particular, the “New Item” toolbar button should fade to a lighter blue when unfocused.
Many interactions in the app do not have the animations they should, including list expansions, menu displays, checkbox toggling, and modal dialogue appear/disappear.
Unnecessary reliance on modal dialogues is antithetical to native Mac app development. In particular, the “Preferences” and “About” windows should be … well, windows, not modal dialogues.
It is unusual for a Mac app to have the “About” page be part of the preferences dialogue.
When unfocused, 1PW 8 lacks hover states. In order to copy a field when the app is unfocused, you have to click into the window, then click the field again. 1PW 7 only requires a single click and properly displays hover state when unfocused.
1PW 8 no longer shows the number of items in a tag/category.
There is seemingly no longer an easy way to mark or unmark an item as a favorite.
The account name at the top of the sidebar has a disclosure triangle in the down position, indicating that clicking it will collapse the sidebar entries for that account. Instead, clicking it brings up a popover menu with various actions. (I don’t know whether this behavior is different when you have more than one account. My point is that this behavior is unusual for this type of UI element.)
The app uses almost 2x the memory footprint of 1PW 7 and 10x(!) the idle CPU usage.
The app is noticeably slower. Scrolling a long list introduces a delay in displaying icons that is not present in 1PW 7. Additionally, there is flicker and occasional slow loading when changing filters, vaults, and tags. (1PW 7 also has flicker at times, notably when changing login items. It’s far more prominent in 8, however.)
There’s too much list padding. With windows of identical dimensions, 1PW 7 shows me 10.5 items; 1PW 8 shows me only 7.5.

Are these things ultimately minor? Yeah. Complaining about a preferences window becoming a modal dialogue is about as first-world a problem as you can get. At the same time, I’m paying money for this, and now it feels like I’m going to spend money on a downgrade.

1Password 8 is probably the most native-feeling and best Electron app I’ve used, but that’s like saying the McDonald’s by Disneyland is the best McDonald’s I’ve eaten at. I’ve been a 1Password user for years (I started with 1Password 3) and always held the app up as the only app I unreservedly considered worth a subscription. Now it’s pretty likely I’ll move to something else.

1Password Version: 80200056
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: macOS 11.5.1

betas

danco
Occasional Contributor
4 years ago
@blankspace, it does seem likely that 1PW8 is better than 1PW7 in the back-end code base. This is of great advantage to AgileBits and ultimately to users. The trouble is that it's the user interface that of course users are most aware of, and that is currently very troublesome in 8.

@tiltowaitt , I think you are making a mistake in cancelling your subscription now. Renew and use 1PW7 until next August. And, if you can bother to use 1PW8 occasionally, keep criticising.

I think perhaps my biggest fear is with roustem 's satisfaction with the current 1PW8. Though he is a Mac enthusiast, this may mean that he has little interest in trying to produce a native version.
XIII
Trusted Contributor
4 years ago

I would never go back to version 7. It just feels outdated and slow.

But at least in v7 "everything" works.

In v8 even many basics don't work (auto-fill, Safari extension, copying OTP passwords, etc.) :cry:
semaja2
Occasional Contributor
4 years ago
roustem and all the others at 1Password, you keep talking about all the new features and UI, but no one really answers the obvious... what was wrong with AppKit?

The team at 1Password has significant funds and resources now, and your saying you cant spend the extra resources in making a UI in AppKit for the Mac?

By all means keep the core in Rust so the code can be reused, but just use AppKit for the UI. Even if it means features are delayed to the Mac, if people want the latest features they can use the damn web app

You have threatened to disrupt and abandon your most loyal customers all because of the ability to reuse the UI code base between platforms?

Just look at ArqBackup, it had a very average UI, they moved to Electron, suddenly has a modern UI but with terrible usability, was probably their shortest major release cycle because they ran back to a native App

All we can hope for is 1PW8 to be deemed a failed concept, and a native app is returned before you stop supporting 1PW7.
1P_Ben
1Password Team
4 years ago
semaja2

It's a fair question. Our VP of Client Apps offered some explanation in a recent blog post, which outlines the goals we had and the challenges presented by each of the options:

1Password 8: The Story So Far

Ben
roustem
1Password Team
4 years ago

But at least in v7 "everything" works.

In v8 even many basics don't work (auto-fill, Safari extension, copying OTP passwords, etc.) :cry:

XIII, do you remember the very first 1Password 7 beta or maybe the very first 1Password 4 beta?

A lot of things didn't work or worked differently from what people expected back then. It is no different today. We had a few hundred people using the app internally for months, but it is not possible to make the first public build perfect based solely on internal usage. There are so many people with different set up, different workflows, and different expectations.

And even then first stable release is never perfect. Look at 1Password 7, it is currently at version 7.8.7 and the 7.8.8 beta build went out last week.

We released the Linux and Windows apps earlier this year and got some feedback and improvements based on that. However, 1Password for Mac is our most advanced app and the bar is much higher.
XIII
Trusted Contributor
4 years ago

XIII, do you remember the very first 1Password 7 beta or maybe the very first 1Password 4 beta?

Not anymore; I guess they made no long-lasting impression... (So maybe the same is true for v8 after a while?)

I know one can't test software 100%, but I am surprised that so many basic things don't work (for me) in the Early Access version, while 1Passwords employees have apparently been using it for months (and either did not experience those issues or did not think they were release blockers).
roustem
1Password Team
4 years ago

roustem and all the others at 1Password, you keep talking about all the new features and UI, but no one really answers the obvious... what was wrong with AppKit?

There are a couple of issues here. First, as John Siracusa mention on the recent ATP podcast, is AppKit something that will eventually be replaced by SwiftUI, similar to what happened with Carbon when Cocoa was introduced? I remember using Carbon apps and they didn't feel quite right.

Most importantly, 1Password 8 currently had zero lines of AppKit code written. If we start the new AppKit app today, it could take another year for the app to be ready (I am not overestimating the time because our last full rewrite — 1Password 4 — took over nine months just to get from first public beta to release). At the same time, the existing 1Password 8 will keep moving forward on Linux and Windows and we will never catch up. This was happening with our Windows app for many years and we want to break that cycle.

The team at 1Password has significant funds and resources now, and your saying you cant spend the extra resources in making a UI in AppKit for the Mac?

The software is a strange thing. Often, there is no correlation between how much money you spend on it and the final build quality. That's not to say that we are not willing to spend what it takes to build the best apps — this is what makes 1Password stand out of the crowd.

At this point, we believe that we could build the best version of 1Password for Mac if we focus on a single desktop app and spend our time to make sure it is a good macOS citizen — fast, powerful, pleasant to use, fully integrated with the OS services.
Former Member
4 years ago
roustem

"Often, there is no correlation between how much money you spend on it and the final build quality."

Yeah, no kidding. You've called 1Password the most "expensive" undertaking in the company's history and it's a good example of pouring a ton of money into something and getting a shoddy outcome. Electron is here, that is fine, just make it feel nicer to use and faster.
Former Member
4 years ago
It’s worth mentioning that the ATP episode was also very critical of the move to Electron, and the hosts all stated the opinion that it was the wrong move. But like they said, it’s easy to armchair quarterback. While I question one or two assertions made in this forum, I don’t think AgileBits made the decision lightly. As a Mac user, it’s impossible to shake the feeling that my money is going toward making the app a worse experience for me. That is ultimately what I’m upset about.

danco There’s no way I’m going to pay for a yearly subscription right now. Like I said, I will probably sign up for a monthly until I’ve had the time to check out other services. I tried out a few yesterday, and to my frustration, none of them held a candle to 1PW 7. I suppose I can congratulate the team on that, at least.
roustem
1Password Team
4 years ago

I know one can't test software 100%, but I am surprised that so many basic things don't work (for me) in the Early Access version, while 1Passwords employees have apparently been using it for months (and either did not experience those issues or did not think they were release blockers).

We haven't released 1Password 8 for Mac yet. We could have certainly spent more time working on it internally but there is a lot of value in getting feedback earlier.

And, just like you are surprised about things that do not work for you, we are sometimes surprised to see people using 1Password in ways we never thought of 😄