How to Force Download of All Attachments in All Items to All Devices? Seriously, WTH?

I am currently in instant regret and semi-panic mode after finally relenting to the broken 1P extension in Safari 13.1 and moving from the perfectly functional solution that was v6 to v7, and justifying it because of the Family and Teams features.

I found a single four year old thread that seems to indicate that there is no way to maintain complete, offline local vaults other than manually downloading each and every attachment for each and every item to each and every device for each and every member and each of their personal devices for both private and shared items and vaults.

Is this really the case? And what if I update a single doc? Do I have to chase though my own personal collection of eight devices, and notify every sharing member to update each and every file, and vice versa? Gods forbid I create a guest or personal account on any of theirs or any other machines; then get the joy of doing it all over again.

That thread also seemed to indicate that were I foolish enough to try to move my vaults back to iCloud or Dropbox, that I'd still have to reattach and relink every single attachment or link for every single item; the vast majority of these documents exist only in the original v6 vaults. Have I just unwittingly and unwillingly blown up my entire family's workflows and literally some 20+ devices???

Someone, please tell me this is a nightmare I can easily awaken from. If not, where's the how-to on restoring v6 functionality and complete local vaults?

Sorry for the aggression, but, holy cow, I fear I just dragged my entire family into a staggering, inexplicable problem that needs to be undone.

1Password 7
Version 7.4.3 (70403002)
1Password Store
several Macs with 10.13, 10.14, 10.15
& the latest 1P on numerous iOS 13.4 devices
Apple Watch Series 3, 4, 5; latest OS


1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided

Comments

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Hi @FredericoR

    Welcome to the 1Password Support Forum. I'd be happy to help with this.

    How to Force Download of All Attachments in All Items to All Devices?

    That isn't something that is currently possible, intentionally. While many of us are blessed with fast internet connections that don't have data caps that certainly isn't universally true, particularly on mobile devices. We've built the system in a way that attempts to be friendly to a world that doesn't have ubiquitous unlimited broadband.

    As things continue to develop that is becoming less of a limitation, and so we'll continue to evaluate and adjust as appropriate. I'd love to see a day come where not only would this be an option but it would just be the way things work, as everyone would have fast unrestrained internet access. Obviously we're not there yet.

    Someone, please tell me this is a nightmare I can easily awaken from.

    Quite a powerful statement there. I'm sorry this has become such a stumbling block for you. Perhaps if you could tell me a bit more about how you're using Documents within 1Password I could help guide you toward a more workable solution? E.g. It seems a bit odd that you'd be in a position to both want all documents always automatically downloaded, yet frequently enough be without internet access where that would be necessary? Would you mind elaborating more about your workflow and situation?

    It is possible that your case is not something we accounted for when designing 1Password, and if that's true, it is all the more important that we hear about that. I can't promise that it will be something we can account for going forward, but if we're unaware of it then it is very unlikely things will improve for you or others in the same boat.

    And what if I update a single doc? Do I have to chase though my own personal collection of eight devices, and notify every sharing member to update each and every file, and vice versa?

    That is a really great question that I'm not sure of the answer to. I'll have to do some research or testing and get back to you on that. Generally the items that lend themselves to being stored in 1Password (e.g. scans of Passports, birth certificates, credit cards, etc) aren't things that update frequently, and so I can't say I've noticed one way or the other. I'll play around with it, see what the answer is, and report back.

    Admittedly 1Password was not designed to store frequently edited or collaborated on documents. It was never intended to be a competitor with something like Google Docs or Dropbox, for example. If that is what you're trying to use it for then unfortunately you may be running into a situation where you're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. It might work with a lot of sanding but it isn't going to be pretty.

    If not, where's the how-to on restoring v6 functionality and complete local vaults?

    I'm sorry to say but I really don't believe that is going to be a viable solution. 1Password 6 is currently two years out of date. As you've found it doesn't work with modern versions of Safari and as it is no longer being developed the situation with it will only continue to degrade. As a security focused company we'd always recommend running the latest versions of all of your software, but especially your operating system, web browser(s), and 1Password. If you opt to use to an earlier version that is your prerogative, but it isn't something we can recommend. That said, licenses never expire, and so you can continue using any version you've licensed for as long as it works for you. Using version 6 should be considered a temporary measure. As things continue to evolve around the now retired v6 it will be less and less practical to continue using it.

    Thanks for reading, and I look forward to continuing the conversation. I'm hopeful we can find a solution that is agreeable. :+1:

    Ben

  • Hi, thanks for the response.

    tl;dr: I just need instructions on how to restore my group's vaults, in their entirety, with attachments for continual local access, to be made available on a third party server; and an more clear outline of what I lose with this model. I obviously have v6 vault backups in most cases, if I need to start over.

    Please consider that v6 was once built in a manner that allowed for exactly the use case scenarios discussed, and because of its push-capable nature, and the ease with which it could be ejected in security-risk situations (which you've made even easier with Travel Mode), made it incredibly viable for both domestic and international travel where security, as well as connectivity is an option; and more importantly, where it is not, as you present in support of your model decisions. Even domestically, we frequently sojourn to places with severely limited access, and this is also a time in extreme scenarios it may be crucial to access certain docs; if only for further use via landline, fax, or hard copy delivery.

    Bandwidth costs are not typically factored in this for us, as however it gets done, via iCloud, Dropbox, SFTP, rsync, WLAN, etc., it needs to be done, bit for bit. If I had an internet connection prior to such a situation I didn't even have to guess if I was fully up to date; and if I also knew I didn't need to worry about one on or after arrival, I could regain access easily to all items, including any changed documents.

    In my family, we are, sadly, in need of constantly evolving 'in case of death or incapacity' documents for more than just our immediate family members, and 1Pv6 fit that need almost perfectly, especially for its dead-simple use for the technically disinclined. As I said, despite some of the very attractive features in 1Pv7, it really only came to a head with Safari 13.1 and family and group members unable or unwilling to easily avoid Safari or maintain multiple keychains; it continues to function as it did in other browsers. Clearly we will simply need to recover from this, revert, adapt, or decide how to rebuild a complex access system that isn't subject to illegal searches, seizures or other illegal attacks of privacy and security; and maintains an ease of use for young children to the elderly, and any tech-averse parties in between. Yours was an affordable tool with all of that builtin for free with the original purchase. It's all in the name, after all: just one password required for each party.

    And though I understand fully that wasn't a viable business model for you, many apps have successfully evolved to a subscription model that didn't radically break prior functions.

    And, as a developer, I know you've long heard the myth of 'just make it a preference' as the answer to every solution for every problem; but it seems like a user or group, even per device, should be able to assess the costs of bandwidth for themselves; and if Agile Bits can't afford that added bandwidth, then it could either consider charging for it, as you do past 1GB of storage, or allowing for a seamless return to the option of a third-party vault storage sync option, even if that means users would have to make informed decisions as to a loss of some necessary or desirable features with your cloud.

    At a minimum, the installer should have had a big fat READ ME FIRST explaining what would happen when upgrading v6 vaults to v7; believe me, had I seen that, I wouldn't have blown up my family's and extended family's accounts, and spent a large number of hours dealing (remotely in many cases) with umpteen devices. It was many hours before I realized that formerly local docs were now under your possession, and we each had to request them back on demand; and it's still not clear to me if, once we have them locally, they remain there. Please advise.

    And if there is a way to have preserved v6 items intact in local or cloud-shared vaults, that, too, IMO, should have been offered prior to or during upgrade, giving a user the option to migrate to your cloud later, if desired. I put my faith in this document, by the way: https://support.1password.com/sync-options/

    My bad. Absolutely all on me. I should have looked and looked and looked and browsed your forum for four year old threads for every unforeseen issue not readily and explicitly outlined in your sales pitch and basic overview docs before I made the leap. I shouldn't have relied on existing features in v6 to seamlessly remain in v7. I absolutely should have tested more thoroughly on a very limited set of devices before deploying late in the night during a pandemic, in which I have little time for additional drama or rapid reversions. I am definitely the ass in my assumptions.

    BTW, while you show the basics of how to restore third-party sync in v7, it still appears as all the attachments and links in every item would have to be manually restored, for each user; and I'm still confused as to how Shared vaults will be able to reliably function under this model. If I'm just being reactionary, and have somehow missed how to restore/adapt v7 to our needs, please don't hesitate to call me out, and kindly link to those detailed support docs. We'll just then need to decide if all this effort and annual costs across multiple paid accounts and users is worth the accumulated costs for a functional plugin in Safari.

    Happy Saturday, and Thanks for your Kind Attention.

    F

  • To preface this: to Agilebits staff, if this violates any policies against advertising another service or something, I do apologize in advance.

    So if I'm understanding this correctly, there are a fair number of documents that are relatively live documents, or a significant number of new documents being added on a relatively regular basis, correct?

    I would argue that a password manager, no matter what that password manager is, may not be the best place to be storing live or relatively live documents.

    (not affiliated with the following, just a long-long-long term user [back when it was first advertised on hackernews back in 2012])

    Keybase may fit the needs better of what at this point seems to be an entire filesystem to be managed, not a handful of functionally static documents.

    Keybase has a shared filesystem functionality using Keybase Teams, which by default is a streaming file system, but allows for the ability for arbitrary folders to be kept synced and up to date.

    It's cryptographically secure in much the same way 1Password is, but it just presents as a filesystem visible on your computer, rather than being behind a master password like 1Password's documents are.

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    I would have to agree with plttn that a password manager, and specifically 1Password, may not be the best solution for storing documents that are being collaborated on or need to change with any regularity. 1Password 6 and standalone vaults were not designed to handle this either.

    I'm still really quite unclear on what specifically worked for you in v6 that is now not working for you in v7. Can you give an example of an instance where the workflow broke down? Specifically: what steps are you taking, what are you expecting to happen, and what happens instead? It would help immensely to have specific examples I could provide when advocating for changes.

    To your questions...

    And what if I update a single doc? Do I have to chase though my own personal collection of eight devices, and notify every sharing member to update each and every file, and vice versa?

    I tested this by creating a new Document item with 1Password for Mac. I then used the 1Password.com web app to replace the file for the Document with a different file. I did indeed need to then download this Document on my Mac in order to view it. It did not download the updated file automatically. I agree with you that this is less than ideal (more on that below).

    And, as a developer, I know you've long heard the myth of 'just make it a preference' as the answer to every solution for every problem; but it seems like a user or group, even per device, should be able to assess the costs of bandwidth for themselves; and if Agile Bits can't afford that added bandwidth, then it could either consider charging for it, as you do past 1GB of storage, or allowing for a seamless return to the option of a third-party vault storage sync option, even if that means users would have to make informed decisions as to a loss of some necessary or desirable features with your cloud.

    I can say with some confidence that we're not going in the latter direction. 1Password.com is the way forward for 1Password. That said, as mentioned above, we'll certainly continue to evaluate the landscape and make adjustments to this feature as appropriate. I certainly agree that it would be nice if 1Password would automatically download any changes that were made to a Document that has already been downloaded without any user intervention. I've filed a feature request for that with our development team for further consideration. We're tracking that request internally as dev/projects/customer-feature-requests#163

    We do also have a feature request filed for automatically downloading all Documents, or a way to download them in bulk. I'd be happy to add your voice to that. That one is tracked internally as dev/apple/issues#658.

    and it's still not clear to me if, once we have them locally, they remain there

    They do, generally. I have Document items that I haven't touched since 2016 that are still cached in 1Password for Mac. Turning on Travel Mode and not marking the vault they are in as safe for travel may mean you have to re-download once disabling Travel Mode, though. They can also be removed manually.

    And if there is a way to have preserved v6 items intact in local or cloud-shared vaults, that, too, IMO, should have been offered prior to or during upgrade

    The upgrade doesn't remove any sync files from 3rd party storage (e.g. if you had a vault synced with Dropbox, it is still in Dropbox).

    BTW, while you show the basics of how to restore third-party sync in v7, it still appears as all the attachments and links in every item would have to be manually restored, for each user; and I'm still confused as to how Shared vaults will be able to reliably function under this model.

    The only way we support sharing 1Password data is through 1Password.com, which means Documents instead of attachments. We do not support sharing of 1Password data with other people through standalone vaults + 3rd party sync services, regardless of which version of 1Password is in use.

    If you haven't made changes to your data in v7 / 1Password.com, and ultimately decide you want to revert to v6 / standalone, the best option for the least amount of work may be to uninstall v7, install v6, and then restoring a backup from just prior to having upgraded: https://support.1password.com/backups/#you-can-also-create-and-restore-backups-of-standalone-vaults
    I would have to urge you to consider that a temporary solution though, while hopefully finding a way to work within the new model. v6 is retired, and I can't in good conscience recommend using unsupported software.

    If restoring a backup is not going to work, either because changes to your data have been made since that time or some other reason, then the only solution I'm aware of would be the instructions in this guide:

    How to move your data to a standalone vault to use 1Password without an account

    You would need to re-attach your attachments in this case.

    Also, to clarify, there are two separate situations to consider here: 1Password.com-based vaults vs standalone vaults, and 1Password 6 vs 1Password 7. 1Password.com based vaults are where Documents come from. 1Password 7 with standalone vaults still uses the old attachments system. So perhaps a better interim solution would be to keep using 1Password 7, but to revert to standalone vaults (see above), until you can figure out a workflow that works. For this you would need to download 1Password from our website (i.e. not the Mac App Store): https://1password.com/downloads
    You would also need to purchase a 1Password 7 for Mac license for each individual who would be using 1Password that way. Licenses are, as of writing, $65 USD + tax.

    To reiterate: I think that the best solution here would be to find a workflow that works for you and your family within the context of 1Password 7 and 1Password.com membership, as that is really the only supported way forward for a case like this. It may also be appropriate to consider if 1Password (or any password manager) is the right solution for what you're trying to accomplish. If so, it seems that perhaps adding the step of making sure all required Documents are downloaded before traveling would be the thing to do.

    Ben

  • Thanks to both @plttn and @Ben for the replies and helpful advice. After doing some trial and error last night with cloud, NAS and third party sync options, I have figured out a generally manageable method for shared keys to access secure disk images on third party and private sharing sites (such as our own servers), linked from a 1Pv7 key. It's a bit hokey at the moment, and I'm confident I can refine it; and it requires a tiny bit of travel and regular updating prep, but that is solved using Shortcuts, AppleScript, Reminders and Geofencing. The most important thing is all our tech-averse participants already know how to use 1Password, and it isn't too intimidating to adjust to the new features.

    And huge props to Apple (and unquestionably Agile Bits) for driving forward with superior integration in both iOS and macOS; this will greatly ease the pain caused by the extra steps now required to access the "living documents", for which instructions are easily added to each key in the notes. As long as local cache reliably maintains access to manually downloaded static documents, we'll survive with v7 shared cloud vaults.

    Yes, please, add my VERY LOUD voice to those two feature requests above.

    Happy Monday and Cheers

    Frederico

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    That is excellent news @FredericoR! I'm so glad to hear you've found something that works for you without having to revert to old software.

    Yes, please, add my VERY LOUD voice to those two feature requests above.

    Done. :)

    Ben

  • Ben
    Some context on why a person would want all attachments to be downloaded. I travel frequently to countries where I don't have an internet connection. For security I like to attach key travel documents to an identity in 1P7, this is an awesome feature and allows me to store info within separate identities (one with a scan of passport, residency, work permits, one for travel bookings, one for medicals, PCR tests, etc). This is a very handy feature in 1P7, knowing I have the doc and knowing it is secure in case my phone is lost.

    But since I attach the doc or pdf or whatever on my imac at home, I need to manually download every doc on every device (phone and ipad) before flying out, or I will be stuck at an airport without a local internet connection and unable to show my relevant document. I know the obvious answer is make sure you download everything, but it also is good to be able to prevent such a problem from arising, if there was a global option such as was originally requested at the start of the thread to just automatically download all attachments this would be a great solution. Failing that, a filter to show there are downloaded attachments would be the second-best option.

    Love your product, I've been using it for many years, and have recommended it to many people.

    Regards, Craig

  • ag_anaag_ana

    Team Member

    Thank you very much for sharing your use case with us @craigded, that's very useful! I have passed your feedback to the developers :+1:

    ref: dev/projects/customer-feature-requests#181

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