1Password v8 is a Mistake
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Odd, isn't it? How over time we grow accustomed, and even connected, to a piece of software.
I get that. But you guys - some of you - act as if someone had taken away the entire password manager from you. When all that's happened is there is a new early access version, which you neglect solely because it is being built on Electron rather than being a native Mac app. As if that would take away any of the functionality. It may look a bit different, but that's really all that changes. There will probably be feature parity once we're out of early access / beta. I really don't get the hyperbole over-dramatization of this "Electron bad, the world has ended".
If and when there is feature parity between the native and the Electron app, and it works as good as before, there is really absolutely no reason to be upset. Just because something moves to Electron is not a good enough reason to overreact like some here do.
You should all be intellectually honest enough to ask yourself whether you buy a password manager for its fancy "native Apple look" or for what it can do.
Some just want to be upset.
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@shepstl Yeah, sorry about that. I meant to @blankspace. Getting used to this forum where I'm accustomed to being able to quote posts. My bad!
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@FCNV I am certainly seeing things from my perspective and it is not easy for me to see it from yours. It is "my baby" and I probably see only (mostly) the good things — the new features, the security improvements, better performance, cleaner UI, a ton of usability improvements. Just the better keyboard support in the main app makes me happy. And don't get me started about the sidebar or item editing in 1Password 7.
So far, the main complaint is that "it is an Electron app, and it is unacceptable to me because I am a Mac user". There were a few valid points about memory usage and a few notes about visual elements. The new mini (Quick Access) is obviously not finished but it will be. What else am I missing?
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It’s been a super painful day for me because I love this company but to just cheer on this bad decision is a form of co-dependency. Like someone said, I don’t need to eat Modern Mud to know that I don’t like mud.
But because I really do care, I did eat some mud and tried this thing out. Spent a lot of energy on posts, tweets and conversations.
Here is one example: The About Box
Who cares? I care. Because I like things to work consistently. So in 1Password 8, as shipped, after a year’s work (or more?) imagine me doing this support for a relative I’ve convinced to use 1Password (there are many) and are now having issues with 8:
“Ok let’s see why version you have, under 1Password menu, choose About 1Password”
“Ok it says 8.2.345”
“Ok great, press command-w to close the about box”
“Ok. Did that”
“Ok select your login”
“What login? They all went away”
“They what? What app is named in the upper left corner next to the Apple menu”
“Finder”
“What????”- Non-standard About Box
- Non standard preferences
- Non-standard handling of command-W
That’s the level of native support we are at. Because of a design decision, which was driven by being cross platform.
Oh and I left out that the about menu opens the preferences which are a fake window living on top of the 1Password window with a “X” web style close box in the upper right corner.
That’s just one of the issues. Default key shortcuts missing for dialogs, regression of existing features, etc all add up to a signal from the company that it’s firmly headed towards Enterprise first (if not there already) and what’s next? Selling the company to Big Corp?
1Password is more than an app. It’s my entire digital life that I entrusted with AgileBits. Now that trust I gave them to do the right thing is in question, by my standards admittedly. Call it dramatic, insult all you want, this is a deep question of trust in decision making related to the most important data I am in possession of.
To call this the best release ever is a really confusing message to me. Is this the best release, or a maybe kinda will be some day it’s only beta after all release? Sends a weird message about what was touted as the most loved password manager in the world, which is somehow now no longer all that great compared to this incomplete, regression laden beta of version 8.
It’s also really confusing to see you diss your own product that was world class yesterday and today “And don't get me started about the sidebar or item editing in 1Password 7.”
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Again, I think you are in a dangerous echo chamber here. I'm not personally taking the caveman stance "Electron app bad!" but definitely understand the criticism. I actually don't care what you write it in. I just use it for password management, not rendering Pixar movies. But I still think it's important that whatever language or framework you use, it:
- Is polished in ways your previous apps were and this one is not.
- Feels consistent with the OS experience it is on. I know you want to standardize the look across platforms because it is easier, but there is a benefit to making it feel whole with each OS. Mac users value this experience, as you may know.
- It is performant. We've seen reports of this thing taking up 3-5x resources as 1Password 7.
Please don't be dismissive of these things just because it makes it easier to forge forward with your roadmap. I know it sucks now, but someday you'll be able to look back and tell the story about the time you made a mistake with 1Password 8, listened to the feedback, and made the right decisions with the roadmap and product, even if it wasn't the easy decision. The same way Mark Zuckerberg talks about their misstep with web apps on mobile and they realized they should have been native. I firmly believe there is a way for you to get rich and be proud of your work and decisions at the same time. It just starts with you accepting the feedback in earnestness.
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Again, I think you are in a dangerous echo chamber here. I'm not personally taking the caveman stance "Electron app bad!" but definitely understand the criticism. I actually don't care what you write it in. I just use it for password management, not rendering Pixar movies. But I still think it's important that whatever language or framework you use, it:
- Is polished in ways your previous apps were and this one is not.
- Feels consistent with the OS experience it is on. I know you want to standardize the look across platforms because it is easier, but there is a benefit to making it feel whole with each OS. Mac users value this experience, as you may know.
- It is performant. We've seen reports of this thing taking up 3-5x resources as 1Password 7.
Please don't be dismissive of these things just because it makes it easier to forge forward with your roadmap. I know it sucks now, but someday you'll be able to look back and tell the story about the time you made a mistake with 1Password 8, listened to the feedback, and made the right decisions with the roadmap and product, even if it wasn't the easy decision. The same way Mark Zuckerberg talks about their misstep with web apps on mobile and t
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Thanks. Can you please open a ticket for preferences not being a real mac window with window controls? I am not sure why the product got this far like this. Mixing and matching native and web controls is not acceptable.
Also try command minus a bunch of times and watch the content shrink under the window controls.
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@sriggins It actually was a separate window at some point during the development. We found that it is cleaner and easier to locate when it is a part of the main window.
I am not seeing any changes when I use ⌘+, multiple times. Is there something special about the window size or location to recreate it?
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Again, I think you are in a dangerous echo chamber here. I'm not personally taking the caveman stance "Electron app bad!" but definitely understand the criticism. I actually don't care what you write it in. I just use it for password management, not rendering Pixar movies. But I still think it's important that whatever language or framework you use, it:
- Is polished in ways your previous apps were and this one is not.
- Feels consistent with the OS experience it is on. I know you want to standardize the look across platforms because it is easier, but there is a benefit to making it feel whole with each OS. Mac users value this experience, as you may know.
- It is performant. We've seen reports of this thing taking up 3-5x resources as 1Password 7.
Please don't be dismissive of these things just because it makes it easier to forge forward with your roadmap. I know it sucks now, but someday you'll be able to look back and tell the story about the time you made a mistake with 1Password 8, listened to the feedback, and made the right decisions with the roadmap and product, even if it wasn't the easy decision. The same way Mark Zuckerberg talks about their misstep with web apps on mobile and their decision to go native.
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It was command minus to shrink the window content, also under the view me menu.
The preferences explanation makes me more sad, sadly. I just don’t buy it, sorry. We have had preferences as native windows for decades, and all of a sudden it’s a bad experience?
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I just want to point out that after leaving a few respectful and constructive criticisms in response to roustem I was blocked from posting on this board by the 1Password team. I see where this is going, so I'll just leave this last attempt:
Again, I think you are in a dangerous echo chamber here. I'm not personally taking the caveman stance "Electron app bad!" but definitely understand the criticism. I actually don't care what you write it in. I just use it for password management, not rendering Pixar movies. But I still think it's important that whatever language or framework you use, it:
- Is polished in ways your previous apps were and this one is not.
- Feels consistent with the OS experience it is on. I know you want to standardize the look across platforms because it is easier, but there is a benefit to making it feel whole with each OS. Mac users value this experience, as you may know.
- It is performant. We've seen reports of this thing taking up 3-5x resources as 1Password 7.
Please don't be dismissive of these things just because it makes it easier to forge forward with your roadmap. I know it sucks now, but someday you'll be able to look back and tell the story about the time you made a mistake with 1Password 8, listened to the feedback, and made the right decisions with the roadmap and product, even if it wasn't the easy decision. The same way Mark Zuckerberg talks about their misstep with web apps on mobile and the decision to go native. You can get rich and make a good app.
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The 1Password community is now censoring posts in this thread.
"Your comment will appear after it is approved."
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They also didn't show up for the Reddit AMA that they themselves announced.
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The weird thing about getting $100 million in VC funding is:
- They don't have to go to the cheapest option (Electron).
- Now what is their primary differentiator between LastPass or Dashlane? It isn't performance, security, or the user experience. Are they just going to out-market them to enterprises?
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If it is confirmed to be an Electron base application, I will never upgrade to v8!!
This kind of application needs to be super fast and use little ressources. IT NEEDS to be a native app!0 -
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Again, I think you are in a dangerous echo chamber here. I'm not personally taking the caveman stance "Electron app bad!" but definitely understand the criticism. I actually don't care what you write it in. I just use it for password management, not rendering Pixar movies. But I still think it's important that whatever language or framework you use, it:
- Is polished in ways your previous apps were and this one is not.
- Feels consistent with the OS experience it is on. I know you want to standardize the look across platforms because it is easier, but there is a benefit to making it feel whole with each OS. Mac users value this experience, as you may know.
- It is performant. We've seen reports of this thing taking up 3-5x resources as 1Password 7.
Please don't be dismissive of these things just because it makes it easier to forge forward with your roadmap. I know it sucks now, but someday you'll be able to look back and tell the story about the time you made a mistake with 1Password 8, listened to the feedback, and made the right decisions with the roadmap and product, even if it wasn't the easy decision. The same way Mark Zuckerberg talks about their misstep with web apps on mobile and their decision to go native.
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Hi @FCNV and @FCNV2 - I'm presuming you're the same person because of not just the name similarity but because I found three nearly identical posts in our moderation queue, all time-stamped within 15 minutes of one another.
We don't "censor" posts in the 1Password community, with the exception of violations of our terms of service, but we DO employ automatic measures against spam and auto-posting. It looks like what may may have happened is that you pushed the "post" button a little early on one, as it was cut off in midsentence, and then tried to re-create it with the final sentence finished out? That's almost certainly what triggered our forum software's automatic quarantine process. We use Vanilla Forums for this community, and the options we have for quarantine are not endless; when it's on, if a violates a built-in rule, it will need to be manually recovered by one of us. So, I've taken what looked to be the most-complete of your posts and restored it, above, and you should still be able to post from any account you've created here. Let us know if you have any continued issues, however, and thanks for your patience.
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First things first: I'm a developer by trade, and I can see the technical benefits of a lot of the decisions here - and 100% empathise with the 1Password team when it comes to that horrendous sinking feeling of "your baby" not landing well with users. The tone on here leaves a lot to be desired too. Whatever happens, you folks have built an incredible product over the past years and deserve a lot of respect for that, and I'm sure your heart is in the right place.
That said, make no mistake, as someone who uses Macs specifically for the consistent UI and UX, the decision to rebuild a beloved "mac-assed" (copyright John Gruber) app using web frontend technologies is very disappointing to me as well. Unlike others on here, I don't care about the performance implications of Electron to be honest, my Mac is plenty fast enough and unused RAM is wasted RAM. But: I expect an app to follow platform UX guidelines rather than aiming for consistency across platforms.
I'm particularly irritated by the fact that if you squint hard enough, it almost looks like a native app - but it certainly doesn't act like one. That's actually worse than an app that's unapologetically cross-platform (c.f. VS Code), because you keep expecting it to act like a regular Mac app but keep encountering paper cuts. The scrolling feels different, resizing the window feels laggy, it doesn't respect my system accent colour (except in text boxes), keyboard navigation works differently, modal dialogs feel wrong, the list goes on.
None of these things is the end of the world as we know it, and I'll probably reluctantly continue to use 1Password, but I certainly won't be feeling that warm and fuzzy feeling of using a product that embraces the Mac. And that is sad :( I hope one day you'll be able to use your brilliant Rust backend to power a native Mac frontend and put that smile back on my face!
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Is the Feedback link in the early release actually going to lead to a Feedback forum?
I have legitimate feedback about an issue with my short experience with it and really don't see somewhere that real feedback won't get lost in this love/hate mess.
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Again, I think you are in a dangerous echo chamber here. I'm not personally taking the caveman stance "Electron app bad!" but definitely understand the criticism. I actually don't care what you write it in. I just use it for password management, not rendering Pixar movies. But I still think it's important that whatever language or framework you use, it:
- Is polished in ways your previous apps were and this one is not.
- Feels consistent with the OS experience it is on. I know you want to standardize the look across platforms because it is easier, but there is a benefit to making it feel whole with each OS. Mac users value this experience, as you may know.
- It is performant. We've seen reports of this thing taking up 3-5x resources as 1Password 7.
Please don't be dismissive of these things just because it makes it easier to forge forward with your roadmap. I know it sucks now, but someday you'll be able to look back and tell the story about the time you made a mistake with 1Password 8, listened to the feedback, and made the right decisions with the roadmap and product, even if it wasn't the easy decision. The same way Mark Zuckerberg talks about their misstep with web apps on mobile and their decision to go native.
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