Unable to import data from Roboform 7.9
I have read the instruction on how to import data from Roboform into 1Password. To accomplish this I understand that I first have to install Roboform 6.9. I installed Roboform 6.9 on a virtual machine and copied the Roboform database to it. In Roboform I see entries for all my passcards but they do not work any more. They can open the website but the data is not filled in as is should be. If I view the entry in Roboform the passcard still has the username and password. This leads me to believe that opening a 7.9 version database in RF 6.9 no longer works. And therefore importing the print list.. output will not work either.
Are there any other suggestions for getting the data out of Roboform? I'm going to continue to tear into the data to see what I can come up with. If someone has already accomplished this, it would help immensely. If I can do this, and I get the syncing working the way I want, I will be buying this product for several systems and OSes.
1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided
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Hi @DoctorBrown ,
I don't know if the data imported into older RoboForm versions will "work" as you'd expect. So long as the data is correct, and you can export the data as a print list, that's sufficient. Can you confirm that your data prints out OK in version 6.99? I haven't tested this in about a year.
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The printout generated and saved as an html file is clearly different from Roboform 6.9 vs 7.9. Both are readable and have the user name and password displayed but there is a clear differences in the data displayed. With 6.9, the passcards contain actual html field names like j_username, j_password. But the passcard from 7.9 that is logging on to the exact same web page has things like 'userid' and 'password'. I have no idea where Roboform is getting that information.
I think there's more going on with Roboform than we know. Everything I've tried so far indicates that if your data has moved beyond Roboform 6.9 it is likely that the data generated by the Print List command is no longer going to work when imported into 1Password. It also does not seem to work to take the entire data folder from 7.9 and open it in Roboform 6.9. The passcards no longer will logon to the sites, so importing that into 1Password will not work.
It seems that some people have had some luck taking some 7.x version data back to RF 6.9 and been able to print list it and import into 1Password, but 7.9 is clearly not one of them. I don't know what version this broke.
For the importing function, it looks like I'm too far down the river with Roboform to be able to import the passcards.
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Hi @DoctorBrown,
I just tried the process, and it worked for me.
I took data from RoboForm 6.9.99, and restored that data into RoboForm 7.9.16.7. Then, I copied that profile to a RoboForm 6.9.99 system, and Restored the data from the copied profile. Then via 7.9.9, I saved the Print List as html, and used my converter on the .html file. The conversion was perfect.
All versions above 6.9.99 of RoboForm no longer show the complete URL in the print list (this is RoboForm's way of locking you in). So, you don't want to use data "printed" from versions higher than that to try to import into 1Password.
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I'm glad that that worked for you. You mentioned that you used 'my converter on the .html file'. What converter is this? I am only aware of doing a 'Print List...' from RF and using the import function in 1Password to read the .html file.
Clearly there is something different about my Roboform DB. I take my functioning RF DB from 7.9.16.7 and copy that to a system that has RF 6.9.93 installed. When I try to use the passcards, most, if not all, will not work. That in itself tells me that RF 7.9 has updated or modified my DB so that it no longer works with RF 6.9.93. This makes some sense, because I rarely expect a DB that has been migrated to a newer version to work with an older version of a product. Many times there might be added fields, changed formats or other changes that the older product blows up on.
I suggest that the process you used may not have fully migrated all the DB to the format of 7.9.16.7. Or there could be some other factor.
I have also analyzed the html output from a functioning RF 6.9.63 passcard and the html output from a passcard that was working on 7.9.16.7 that was printed by RF 6.9.63. The html is very different.
My next test is to take a virgin install of RF 6.9.93, create a passcard or two that work, then print list them and import into a virgin 1Password install. If that works, then I know the process will work. If not, I'll be back with more questions.
I would have abandoned RF a long time ago if I had realized they were deliberately making it this difficult to change vendors. This whole concept of SaaS and forcing users to stay in their ecosystem and subscribe to the cloud is really p***ing me off. But that's a rant for another time and place.
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Hi @DoctorBrown,
The converter I refer to is the RoboForm converter in my converter suite. I recently added a RoboForm converter so that users could take their 6.9.99 print list and convert / import on either OS X or Windows, and so that I could help users who were having import troubles with the 1Password native importer. Some people were having trouble getting 1Password to import their data, and some data was being corrupted by 1Pasword in import. You'll want the 1.08 version of the converter suite in Testing Bits. Note - it does not read the data files directly, and still relies on the exported Print List .html file.
You mention that when you try your passcards, most will not work. I'm not sure this matters - there is the data itself, and there is the metadata used to fill fields. It could very well be that the data is OK, but the metadata from 7.x won't work in 6.9. That's fine, since you don't care. All you care about, and all I've tested is that the data itself (the few fields that do exist - username, password, URL, notes) get exported into the HTML properly.
I also would not worry about variances in the HTML between the 6.9 and 7.x versions. That's a non-factor here, and the RoboForm folks did make some changes to the layout.
If the converter doesn't work for you for some of your data, I'm happy to investigate with you and resolve the issues so that you can convert. I don't have as robust a database as you, since I just generate relevant test records to test the basics, and the possible edge cases.
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I have spent the last 4 days trying to get a handle on what works and doesn't, in both my original environment, in Roboform 6.9 and 1Password after an import. The results aren't encouraging. I haven't tested all passcards in all browsers, but this process if far from trouble free. I also ran into the Demo limitation of 1Password of 20 logons which makes it that much harder to test this. I'm not plunking down my money until I can be sure it will function as I want and need. That said....
After culling non-working and obsolete passcards from RF 7.9, I pulled the DB over to a VM running RF6.9. Many work, but many do not. Those logons that pop up a logon window no longer work on RF6.9. Using your converter 1.08, and importing that into 1P 4.6, still more logons don't work as imported. But I can't correct them because I'm exceeding the Demo limitation. It is going to be extremely time consuming to figure out to generate test cases for those I can't get working.
I believe I do care about the HTML differences, because if the imported data is not what the web page presents, the logon likely won't work after the conversion and I'll have to manually recreate it.
Even after importing data from the conversion, there are likely to be many logons I'm going to have to manually recreate. I am finding that 1P does not handle logons I have that pop up a logon window. I have not figured out how to create one that works.
Starting with a new DB (to avoid the Demo limit), I am able to create a couple that didn't work before, but even here, the first logon I created works in FF and Chrome, but doesn't work in IE. It is going to take me days to figure out what logons convert ok or not, what logons I can recreate and how they will work in the various browsers.
This conversion from Roboform to 1Password is a total nightmare. If I wasn't so p***ed at RF for locking me in I'd chuck the whole process. It's beginning to look like the way to go is to just sit down and start over.
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Hi @DoctorBrown,
That sure does sound frustrating. I wish I could make it easier for you.
You are correct - the conversion from RoboForm is horrible, and the blame lays solely on the RoboForm geniuses who can't compete on features, and they know that, and so instead prevent their users from easily leaving.
I don't have anything to add regarding the Demo limit.
You mention that when you bring your RoboForm data over to 6.9.x, "Many work, but many do not". I don't know exactly what that means. Are you suggesting that RoboForm doesn't do the right thing, and that the username, password, and URL are correct, or that one or more of these three fields did not transfer properly? I don't think we care about the former, but the latter would be a problem, and you may just have to manually transfer your data from RoboForm 7.x. Bummer if so.
The HTML data exported by RoboForm 6.x is a pretty simple table within a table, easily parsed. If RoboForm is output the wrong thing, not much I can do about that (we could have you by my eyes and help me understand if there's some quick fixes that can be made to the converter to work around some issues). Since I don't have your data, and can't see what the actual problem is, I'm entirely blind and reliant upon your interpretation and explanation.
1Password does not work with auth pop-ups. There is no means for it to do so securely. You have to manually copy / paste the username and password fields. It does not work like RoboForm, just stuffing keystrokes.
I think there are a couple of areas for consideration in evaluating 1Password:
- do you like the software generally (UI, sorting, categories, tags, smart folders, rich icons, custom sections and fields, security audit features, etc.)?
- does the form-fill, username/password fill works for your needs?
- do the syncing mechanisms work for you?
Create a few logins, try them out via 1Password's Open and Fill, Browswer Extension and 1Password Mini. Try a Credit Card auto-fill. Worry about getting your data into 1Password later.
If there's anything you think the converter can do to help you out, don't hesitate to ask. I could code up something to work with the RoboForm 7.x Print List, but it would be lacking the full URL. Maybe that's good enough to start?
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I hate to say it but my immediate experience with 1Password vs RoboForm is that RF still has 1P beat on features and ease of use. I'll save my comparison for another time. The main problem I have with RF now is forcing me to use a cloud subcription if I want syncing to mobile devices. Now after discovering this 'lock in' behavior, I'm really angry at them.
What I mean by they work is that when I click on the passcard, the browser is directed to the correct webpage or app and the logon is successful.
Doesn't work means that the logon is unsuccessful. The behavior I see varies depending on the particular logon. Most times it means the product doesn't enter correct (or any) data in one or more fields or the logon fails for some other reason, like the passcard navigates to the wrong web page or not at all.
For further testing, I stripped my RF DB down to 20 representitive working logons, including some that have Authentication pop-ups. When I push those to RF 6.9 for the conversion, the Auth pop-ups don't work (that must be unsupported in 6.9.). I had other problems with some in IE. After the conversion and import into 1Password, only three still worked in Firefox. Most that no longer work are missing data for one or more fields, mostly the username.
I'm still working on it but for the first three, I've gotten them to work in FF by deleting and recreating them in 1Password. I have not gotten the auto-save to work, or been able to edit or re-save them so that they work. I have to reenter the data on the webpage and select the 'Save new logon' command from the dropdown menu.
It is difficult to know what the conversion needs because I'm don't know the details of what a PW manager needs to see and save to work correctly. All I can think of is directing you to specific websites that I'm having difficulty with.
In general here are my opinions on 1Pass so far:
- I like the interface and sorting, categories, types of passcards, icons, general look and feel. But needing to navigate all the dropdown menus from the single icon on the toolbar is awkward.
- I haven't been able to evaluate all the features you mention because of my struggle to get some of my passcards to work so I can get a good feel for it's behavior.
- Auto-save seems to not be reliable, and editing/resaving passcards is difficult.
- The main reason I'm looking to change is because 1Pass allows local sync to mobile devices. This is a MUST feature for me. (NO SUBCRIPTION OR CLOUD STORAGE FOR ME!)
- The lack of support for Authentication pop-ups or applications, is a major problem for me, maybe even a deal breaker. RoboForm handles this flawlessly and works with my Apps like Quicken, so I know it's possible. If RF's method is insecure, I don't know that..
So bottom line, 1password seems to be missing two major features that are critical to me and I'll need to completely recreate all (or most) of my passcards.
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It is difficult to know what the conversion needs because I'm don't know the details of what a PW manager needs to see and save to work correctly. All I can think of is directing you to specific websites that I'm having difficulty with.
@DoctorBrown: I understand completely. Please don't hesitate to post these so we can help with specific login issues!
I like the interface and sorting, categories, types of passcards, icons, general look and feel. But needing to navigate all the dropdown menus from the single icon on the toolbar is awkward.
Do you mean you want multiple 1Password extensions in the browser (and therefore multiple menus)?
Auto-save seems to not be reliable, and editing/resaving passcards is difficult.
Sorry or the trouble! This is something we're always working on improving. We'd appreciate it if you can report these using our Synapse website issue tracker so we know what needs to be addressed, but in the mean time manually save the login can help.
The main reason I'm looking to change is because 1Pass allows local sync to mobile devices. This is a MUST feature for me. (NO SUBCRIPTION OR CLOUD STORAGE FOR ME!)
I'm glad to hear that it meets your needs!
The lack of support for Authentication pop-ups or applications, is a major problem for me, maybe even a deal breaker. RoboForm handles this flawlessly and works with my Apps like Quicken, so I know it's possible. If RF's method is insecure, I don't know that..
This is something we may explore again in the future, but of course if deep OS integration is crucial for you then might not be a good fit. While security is certainly a concern, so is stability and not interfering with other apps. That said, you can use 1Password's Auto-Type feature, and create application logins in many of these cases as well.
So bottom line, 1password seems to be missing two major features that are critical to me and I'll need to completely recreate all (or most) of my passwords.
Indeed. Unfortunately without complete data and a public specification it's difficult (if not impossible) to translate another app's login info into something that 1Password can use. And of course in many cases the website itself will change so that the old web from data becomes obsolete. So while it does require some effort upfront, saving a fresh login will make sure that 1Password has all of the information it needs to reliably fill the login. I'm interested to hear if you find Auto-Type helpful, and if you can clarify what the second of the 'missing two major features' was I'd appreciate it! :)
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"Do you mean you want multiple 1Password extensions in the browser (and therefore multiple menus)?"
I was thinking of a toolbar, instead of just an icon, where I could get to the passcards and other functions with fewer clicks. (Maybe I just need to accept that this product is a little different that what I'm used to.)Regarding Authentication pop ups... I have been experimenting more with this. I have had mixed success when I use the Ctrl+\ Auto-type feature. Others I can't get to work in any fashion. In particular, I can not get the logon to my Netgear router or NAS to work. In these cases, when the Auth Pop up is displayed, I can not access any other browser function until the pop up is closed (this is normal for these devices) so I can't select the Save function. Auto-Save does not start or capture the logon. So I can't capture the logon fields.
On my Citi Bank logon, the web site puts '*' in place of the logon name after it is typed., i.e. Log***ame. This is what is captured. Even when I edit the passcard to the correct logon name, the site does not accept it.
The two major features this product is missing or not handling fully:
1. Authentication pop ups.
2. Application logons. such as Quicken's One Step Update. The other product I'm using handles these type logons correctly.I have not had success creating an application logon, yet. To better test this I would need to put 1Password on my main system and I'm not ready to do that. I'm also not ready to purchase a full license to remove the 20 pass card limit, which is hampering my testing. I'm working around it by creating multiple password vaults.
I have also had occasions where after I overwrite a logon via the Settings > Save new logon, it no longer will complete the logon. The fields are filled in but the data is not 'submitted'.
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I was thinking of a toolbar, instead of just an icon, where I could get to the passcards and other functions with fewer clicks. (Maybe I just need to accept that this product is a little different that what I'm used to.)
@DoctorBrown: That's an excellent point, as I know I certainly have a hard time getting used to something new. That said, we also don't want to assume that the way 1Password works today is the 'right way'. We can certainly look into other options, but I'm afraid we're probably not interested in junking up people's browsers with toolbars. We'll likely improve the menu and search functions instead, since that's much less intrusive — both visually and technically (if you've ever encountered a friend or family member's computer with Ask, Google, Yahoo, and the rest installed, you'll know what I mean).
Regarding Authentication pop ups... I have been experimenting more with this. I have had mixed success when I use the Ctrl+\ Auto-type feature. Others I can't get to work in any fashion. In particular, I can not get the logon to my Netgear router or NAS to work. In these cases, when the Auth Pop up is displayed, I can not access any other browser function until the pop up is closed (this is normal for these devices) so I can't select the Save function. Auto-Save does not start or capture the logon. So I can't capture the logon fields.
Indeed, in most cases nothing in the browser (webpage, extensions, etc.) can be interacted with until the HTTPauth modal dialog is dismissed. You'll usually get an angry noise from Windows to alert you to this. Hopefully we'll be able to find a way around this in the future.
On my Citi Bank logon, the web site puts '*' in place of the logon name after it is typed., i.e. Log***ame. This is what is captured. Even when I edit the passcard to the correct logon name, the site does not accept it.
Yep. After the page replaces part of the username with ****, 1Password can't save your actual username, since it isn't there anymore. However, you should be able to get a working Citi login by using this URL:
https://www.accountonline.citibank.com/cards/svc/LoginGet.do
Once you save the login, you will of course need to give it the correct username, since you obviously don't want 1Password filling ****. We're working on getting their many other login forms working again too, but unfortunately this is a not infrequent problem, as they make changes to their site which break fixes we've implemented over the years. Sorry for the trouble!
The two major features this product is missing or not handling fully:
1. Authentication pop ups.
2. Application logons. such as Quicken's One Step Update. The other product I'm using handles these type logons correctly.Ah, understood. Thanks for clarifying! I guess I was confused because I'd lump these together. In both cases 1Password is unable to fill using the browser extension,
1because it's unavailable due to the popup, and2because applications can't use browser extensions at all. In both cases, Auto-Type usually works though...I have not had success creating an application logon, yet. To better test this I would need to put 1Password on my main system and I'm not ready to do that. I'm also not ready to purchase a full license to remove the 20 pass card limit, which is hampering my testing. I'm working around it by creating multiple password vaults.
Can you tell me where you're running into trouble here? A single example will be a good starting point. While 1Password won't be able to detect all application windows, there may be something I can do to help, and if not, something we can do to improve 1Password in the future.
I have also had occasions where after I overwrite a logon via the Settings > Save new logon, it no longer will complete the logon. The fields are filled in but the data is not 'submitted'.
Be sure to report login issues like this using our Synapse website issue tracker so we can work on getting it fixed, and also here so we can see what we can do to help in the mean time! :)
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Brenty, First, I'm not sure how you are using quoting in the reply, but it is helpful. Then, I agree with your sentiment on spurious toolbars.
Regarding HTTPAuth pop ups: With my previous PW Mgr, if it is a new logon it pops up a save dialog and is able to save the passcard. When I invoke the passcard, it then fills in the HTTPauth dialog. So I know it can be done.
I'll experiment more with the Citi Bank site and the application logons.
I can't find the function to access the Synapse website issue tracker. The instructions show how to access it on a Mac. I'm on Windows 7 running 1Password version 4.6.0.592 in Demo mode.
I have now come across an issue where a login that was working on my Virtual Machine, but not on the main host. I installed 1Password on my main computer, copied the 1Password folder to the host, opened the archive in the new installation. Many passcards work, but not to the Acronis Account site: https://account.acronis.com/login
The issues are:
1. On the host, Win 7 Pro x64, FireFox 42.0, 1P navigates to the login page, but does not fill or submit the page. This works on the VM, Win 7 Pro, FF 42.0. Is there something in the way I transferred the archive that caused this?
2. If the login fails as in 1. and I navigate to the Home page, 1P will not navigate to the Acronis page again. I must close all FF windows to get 1P to navigate to the page again. I think it is remembering a pending login. I think I've encountered this before in my testing without realizing it.0 -
Hi @DoctorBrown,
First, I'm not sure how you are using quoting in the reply, but it is helpful.
To quote it, you can either add the > character at the beginning like you would in an email:
or you can click on the paragraph icon in the text format options above the reply box to click on Quote like so:
Regarding HTTPAuth pop ups: With my previous PW Mgr, if it is a new logon it pops up a save dialog and is able to save the passcard. When I invoke the passcard, it then fills in the HTTPauth dialog. So I know it can be done.
Depending on which browser, there are certain APIs that could be done to add 1Password to the HTTP Auth prompts and we're interested in adding it in the future. Right now, our current extension is built to interact with the website as we inject the extension script into the site's code. HTTP Auth is not a part of the website but an external prompt from the browser itself and our script cannot be injected there. We can figure out a way to add a button and do it on a lower level code and we'll see if we can get there soon.
For now, Auto-Type should work fine in that prompt as long as you're focusing the username field first.
I can't find the function to access the Synapse website issue tracker.
You must fill first before you can access the reporter and after the fill fails, click on the 1Password icon to go to Settings > Report an issue with ... to report the issue. Here's a screenshot:
Many passcards work, but not to the Acronis Account site: https://account.acronis.com/login
Can you open the site manually in Firefox first, wait for the slow animation to be finished first and then invoke 1Password to fill, does it work? The pending issue would only be problematic if you were performing a Go and Fill such as opening it from the program or the 1Password's extension > Logins submenu.
I tested this in Firefox 43 and it seems fine, although the site has a slow animation for me and it is possible the fill was done while the site was still trying to flush out the animation.
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I am getting a better feel how to beat 1Password into submission. Some of the processes are not as smooth or trouble free as I have experienced in the past. With corner cases, it is easy to fail to create a working passcard. If I make a mistake creating the passcard, it is easy to overlook or do the wrong thing while trying to fix it. Then sometime it's better to delete and recreate the failing passcard.
HTTP Auth is not a part of the website but an external prompt from the browser itself and our script cannot be injected there. We can figure out a way to add a button and do it on a lower level code and we'll see if we can get there soon. For now, Auto-Type should work fine in that prompt as long as you're focusing the username field first.
There are two particular HTTP Auth logins that I am still not able to get to work. These are to my Router and NAS. If we could get these to work, then I'd be 85% to getting 1Password to work for me. I am not able to capture the needed info to create a valid passcard or application login. I have discovered that my previous PW Mgr seems to treat the Router HTTP Auth login window as an application. It is able to auto-fill and submit applications. Sort of like 1P's Auto-type, but without the need to hit Ctl-\.
I have been able to create Application logons. They work with Auto-type when I hit Ctl-\. But when I have more than one, the 'URL' captured is identical and a selection pop up appears where I have to select the desired one. If 1Password were able to capture a more unique Application name or identifier and Auto-Fill. You'd be home free and be able to say you support applications and I think it might also give you a track to fix the HTTP Auth issue. Somehow, the other PWM is able to tell when an Application login window is displayed.
Can you open the site manually in Firefox first, wait for the slow animation to be finished first and then invoke 1Password to fill, does it work? The pending issue would only be problematic if you were performing a Go and Fill such as opening it from the program or the 1Password's extension > Logins submenu.
That is exactly what I'm doing, a Go and Fill. For me, the Acronis site never gets passed the google-analytics or some other place it is connecting. I think the issue is that the loading of the web site has to get to a specific point before 1P can fill in the data. In the Acronis case, for me it never gets to that point. So 1P is waiting and when I close the site, the 1P plugin is hung. 1P won't execute any other passcard until I close all browser windows. I've seen this in multiple sites. I think 1P needs to be able cancel the pending operation if you navigate away from the page or to a different tab.
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Hi @DoctorBrown,
If 1Password were able to capture a more unique Application name or identifier and Auto-Fill.
We're working on finding a better solution. At the moment, when we ask for the name after selecting the window, that's what is being returned to us. We have to find an alternative that can give us more unique data. We'll be curious to see what others are doing to pinpoint the data.
But when I have more than one, the 'URL' captured is identical and a selection pop up appears where I have to select the desired one.
Just to understand this correctly, 1Password is presenting multiple Login items with the same App URL that's actually reserved for separate apps, right?
I think 1P needs to be able cancel the pending operation if you navigate away from the page or to a different tab.
It is supposed to, it resets the pending queue after a certain period of time but we had some issues with it in the past with Firefox.
We just released an update to our 1Password extension, 4.5.1, for Firefox. Could you update the extension in Firefox's Add-ons area and restart Firefox, see if it is able to handle this better now.
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We'll be curious to see what others are doing to pinpoint the data.
Maybe investigate what my previous PW Mgr is doing (see above). It is able to distinguish between the Apps.
Just to understand this correctly, 1Password is presenting multiple Login items with the same App URL that's actually reserved for separate apps, right?
Yes. I have created two App logins, for Quicken and SplashID Safe. When I display the Quicken Password Vault prompt, hit Ctl-\, the 1P tray icon displays a pop up with the name of the two passcards. In the main app window, the URL for both is: #32770. That is what was captured when I used the Ctrl-Add URL button and selected the window name for the particular app.
We just released an update to our 1Password extension, 4.5.1, for Firefox. Could you update the extension in Firefox's Add-ons area and restart Firefox, see if it is able to handle this better now.
I am already on 4.5.1 updated Dec 20, 2015
I have also discovered something about the Acronis site. It is hanging on my system while it makes some strange TCP connections. If it gets past those initial connections, the login does work. But I'm still having issues with 1P hanging if the login does not complete. How long is the reset timeout? Can it reset if the user navigates to a different tab or page?
I should let you know that I have both PW Mgrs add-ons installed. But I am disabling the one that I'm not testing. I don't know if this might be the cause of any issues.
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Hi @DoctorBrown,
I have also discovered something about the Acronis site. It is hanging on my system while it makes some strange TCP connections.
That doesn't sound safe, I would suggest investigating it and see what it could be. Do you have any other extensions beside the password managers that could get in the way, like security related ones that blocks connections such as NoScript, proxy related, or anything like that? I would suggest trying it in a different browser to see if it shows the same problem, Internet Explorer isn't a good test for this; Opera, Chrome or Safari would work better.
But I'm still having issues with 1P hanging if the login does not complete
The problem is that our extension script has to be initialized into the site's code before it can run, which means the site has to be loaded all the way. If it is still in the process of being loaded, it will be a short while before anything can be filled. This is intentional because a lot of people work on a slow connection and if we are aggressive on this, it would break more often.
But I am disabling the one that I'm not testing. I don't know if this might be the cause of any issues.
Without knowing what they are doing in the code, it is possible. Which is why I recommend testing it in a browser with no extensions beside 1Password installed to see if it works better.
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According to Acronis, the connections are legit. But I'm very unhappy with them connecting to some site in Russia, and using some caching site that is known to have hacking problems, and that Wikipedia says: Two of ISIS' top three online chat forums are guarded by CloudFlare but U.S. law enforcement has not asked them to discontinue the service.
The issue 1Password has with the Acronis site is because those connections to Russia are hanging the load process and preventing 1Password from filling the fields. When I block those addresses, the login works. It also works on a Virtual machine I have. I'm not sure of why. Maybe because it is a x32 install while my main system is x64.
Anyway, after fiddling with 1Password for three weeks, I'm about to throw in the towel. I really want this to work, but I keep coming across sites that 1Password does not handle well. I have reported these using the tool you told me about. The latest snafu is with Google. It works fine with one login, but a passcard for a second login for my second email I can't get to work reliably. Also, when Google remembers the email accounts, 1Password does not handle the select email account display.
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Hi @DoctorBrown,
Anyway, after fiddling with 1Password for three weeks, I'm about to throw in the towel. I really want this to work, but I keep coming across sites that 1Password does not handle well.
I'm sorry to hear that. We are always working on improving our algorithms but with trillion of websites out there, there's no one-fix-for-all we can do. We are improving and testing many of the sites being reported to us to fix.
As for Acronis, that's not something we can fix as it is not on our side.
Cloudflare isn't the problem by the way, they are a useful service that is used by thousands of sites around the internet to provide better performance via redundancies and CDN edge endpoints. They're not guarding these sites intentionally, the problem is that only legal authorities can request the sites be taken down, not by a hacking group. If Cloudflare takes it down because of that group, then where would the line be drawn when a hacking group wants a different site to be taken down because they disagree with it? Since US authoriries has not requested it to be taken down, there's nothing Cloudflare can do about it and that's the right approach despite how big of an issue it is.
I also don't see how it is related to Acronis's slow performance, if Cloudflare is the cause, they could've just switch to a different service or turn it off.
We use an identical provider to allow for fast performance in various countries by hosting the downloads on a nearby CDN server in that country instead of one central US server for the entire globe, which would taken us down many times each time we release a big update.
It works fine with one login, but a passcard for a second login for my second email I can't get to work reliably. Also, when Google remembers the email accounts, 1Password does not handle the select email account display.
If you adjust all of your Google items in 1Password to point to this address: https://accounts.google.com/AddSession?sacu=1
It will take you directly to the login form instead of the complex account chooser menu that Google is doing.
1Password works best when it has the right URL to the login page directly, so it can open that page and starts the process. Unfortunately, there is no web standard for all sites to follow to simplify the login form, they all have different methods and so, there's a battle of 1Password figuring out which URL to use but often, you'd have to edit the URL to help it find the right Login page. This is usually problematic when you're auto-saving the Login item on the registration form, rather than on the website's login page or if you've imported the data from a different password manager that may not include the full addresses.
Usually, the quick way to fix this is to re-save new Login items on the Login page, not on registration pages.
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I do recognize the efforts to improve and appreciate the difficulty in making a product like this work in such a wide variety of circumstances. I understand that the Acronis issues are outside 1Password's control. The hanging of page loading seems to be not caused by Cloudflare, but related to a domain called Yandex.ru, located in Russia. And it is not occurring on all my computers.
I will try modifying the entries to reflect that Google link. That link seems to forward to something else. But my questions then becomes: How is the average user expected to figure out something like that link? The only thing a user would be expected know is to use links to navigate to a page, then use the capture mechanisms to save their passcard. In the case of Google, can you describe a process for capturing a working second login to Google? I could be wrong here but after capturing a second login, the behavior of Google changes so that the first working login breaks. I'm going to test this further to see if I can understand this better.
Yes, my previous experiences show that capturing the URL of the login page directly is the most reliable. Some sites make that difficult. Yes, I am aware of the need to save the URL for the login page, not the registration page.
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Hi @DoctorBrown,
Unfortunately, we do know that this has a lot of learning curve to make it really work on all sites. We're trying to simplify everywhere we can and to constantly update our extension to work on more sites.
How is the average user expected to figure out something like that link? How is the average user expected to figure out something like that link? The only thing a user would be expected know is to use links to navigate to a page, then use the capture mechanisms to save their passcard
From what we've seen here, average users do not have more than one account per service. Google is also an exception to the rule, most sites do not present an account chooser; when you visit their login page, it shows the login page regardless if you're logged in or not.
As for figuring out the URL, you go to the login page to find it. In this case for Google, click on the current account on top right on the Google's page and click on Add Account, that's where I got the URL from. I've removed the excessive part at the end that is not needed.
I then open a new tab and enter that URL to see if it will directly take me to the login page and if it does, then I'll save the login on that.
Yes, my previous experiences show that capturing the URL of the login page directly is the most reliable.
Typically, we see more of first-time users starting for the first time with 1Password, not importing data from a different password manager and having issues trying to make it work with their current data. Most of the sites work okay in this situation and if there are issues, we'd tell them the same here; try re-saving it on the login page rather than the registration. If it doesn't work, we'd test it, file a bug report to improve on this in the future and we share a Login item with the customer to test to see if it would work for them.
For users who wants to import, we usually also recommend that they use 1Password alongside with their current password manager, so that when they log in with the current password manager, 1Password can prompt to auto-save the data. After a few weeks of this, most of the content would be saved in 1Password.
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After more experimentation, I think I have a system that (not ideal but) works pretty well for Google multiple logins:
1. Login to first account. 1P will prompt to save. Save login.
2. Log out from account. Click 'Sign In' again. But this time click 'Sign in with different account'.
3. Login to second account, enter the password, but don't submit.
4. Goto 1P plug-in: Settings > Save new Login...
5. Save as new login (don't overwrite).Now when you want to login to a Google account:
1. If you aren't logged in, when you click 'Sign in', you will see the two saved logins. Click the desired account.
2. If you are already logged in, Open a second tab to Google, click your picture/icon in upper right and click Add Account.
3. If you clicked Add Account, you will be prompted for the account. Select the desired account.
4. When the password prompt is displayed, Go to 1P Plug-in. At the top you see the two Google passcards displayed.
5. Select the matching passcard to the login selected in 1 or 3.There is a potential issue I'm seeing with Comcast email login that I will report when I have a bit more data. If I can solve this (and the HTML Authentication issue) I will be about 90% to getting a working environment. (See next post Re: HTML Auth testing)
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p.s. I did try the Google URL you provided, but it takes me to my Account settings page. I prefer to get to my home page. The link that is captured in the passcards by the above procedure and seems to take me where I want to go is much more complex.
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Hi, thanks for the details.
The link I gave you doesn't include the extra parameters, one of which would be the next site to redirect you to. That's the excessive part I've mentioned was removed at the end of my URL.
But yes, your procedures work to maintain the redirection parameter at the end to point you to the right address. As long as it is not too long, it should work great on all platforms.
Is HTML Auth issue with in a separate thread or is it next post here?
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Here is the information on the HTTP Auth issue.
I have found a way to get the login to my router to work when it uses the HTML Authentication window by creating two passcard items. IF I can get this to work with one item, I will have enough working to be confident enough to purchase this password manager. YEA!!
As I've stated earlier in this thread, I navigate to the router login as: http://www.routerlogin.com/start.htm. This pops up an Authentication window where I enter the Username and Password. While this window is displayed, no other browser buttons or functions are accessible and the Windows Stop sound is heard. so I can not access the 1P plug-in to capture the login.
I manually create a login with no Username or Password defined and with the URL is: http://www.routerlogin.com/start.htm. I then create an application login while the Authentication window is open and select Authorization Required for the app. When the URL is captured, it is filled in as: MozillaDialogClass. I set Use Auto-type in Browser. I then edit the item and fill in the Username and Password.
To use these I execute the first one that causes the browser to display the Authentcation windows. Then I enter Ctl-\ and the Username and password are filled in from the second.
If I could get these two actions to occur with only one item, I'd be very happy. I also need to test what happens when I create two application logins that both have the URL set to MozillaDialogClass. (which seems to be what is captured by the Add App button.)
Any further insight into what I'm seeing would be greatly helpful
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Hi @DoctorBrown,
Could you try something for me:
- Edit the App Login to add this URL as the first one: http://www.routerlogin.com/start.htm while leaving the second one to be the MozillaDialogClass
- Make sure this is checked in the main 1Password program's File Menu > Preferences > Logins > Enable multiple URLs
Now, try doing Go and Fill with the App Login to open the routerlogin site and if it works to bring up the HTTP Auth, try Control + \ again, it should work.
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There is a potential issue I'm seeing with Comcast email login that I will report when I have a bit more data.
This issue has to do with Comcast's website behavior. The issue is that even when I capture the link to the login page. The URL that is captured and is valid to get to the login page changes after a period of time. First you go to their main page (http://xfinity.comcast.net/) then you click the 'Email' button in the left panel. This takes you to the login page. If you capture this link and try to reuse it at a later time , it will take you their main page. The URL has the form: https://login.comcast.net/login?ts=85861752&s=wnamp
The number after login?ts= changes. If you go to https://login.comcast.net/ this does go to the login page, but after login, you go back to their main page. So I think this works to login in to Comcast, but I don't see a way to bypass their main page. (which is likely their intent.)
The issue for 1Password is that the user must understand this behavior and edit the passcard in order to create a working login. As we've seen as I wrestle with this, this isn't the only time one has to dig deep into the mechanics to get something that works.
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Hi @DoctorBrown,
We are trying to figure out ways to ignore time-stamps in the URL but it isn't that easy as it is more likely to break apart on various sites that may use such data. We only use the saved URL for when you're trying to open the item from the main 1Password program and/or the extension.
If you go to the email's login yourself or bookmark it and then use Control + \, it would work the way you want it to because it won't use the saved URL data.
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- Edit the App Login to add this URL as the first one: http://www.routerlogin.com/start.htm while leaving the second one to be the MozillaDialogClass
- Make sure this is checked in the main 1Password program's File Menu > Preferences > Logins > Enable multiple URLs
Now, try doing Go and Fill with the App Login to open the routerlogin site and if it works to bring up the HTTP Auth, try _Control + _ again, it should work.
YES! I got that to work! The wrinkle is that I have multiple sites that use HTTP Auth. Then 1Password doesn't seem to know which one to use. I select the correct passcard from the plug-in menu. The browser navigates to the correct URL and the HTTP Auth window is displayed. When I enter Ctl-\, the task bar icon displays a pop up menu with a list of the passcards containing MozillaDialogClass in the URLs. Once I select the correct one, the username and password are filled in and the login completes.
It seems to me that 1Password is 'this close' to getting it to work. You already know which passcard was selected last, why can't it just use that info to auto-fill in the correct username and password. I know there may be corner cases, but is there a reason this main flow wouldn't work?
Continuing that, when the HTTP Auth window is displayed, is the 1P plug-in able to execute? If not, when does it get re-enabled? When it becomes executable, can it capture this URL sequence on it's own? That would give you the ability to capture a login sequence such as this. (I'm guessing there are details of how all this works that is preventing this. I'm thinking that the navigation to the URL is handled by the plug-in and the Ctrl-\ triggers the process running under the task bar to execute. And the two aren't communicating at that time.)
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Hi @DoctorBrown,
I know there may be corner cases, but is there a reason this main flow wouldn't work?
Auto-Type requires you to focus the username field first before it does its thing, which is type username > tab > type password > press enter if enabled. It is a very primitive feature. Here's the problem with automating auto-type; if by accident the site is loaded or even worse, redirected to a different site, and your focus goes into the search field or the first open text field that is not the username field, 1Password would auto-type anyway, meaning bad things can happen. It is just typing regardless of what is presented in front of it.
It is mostly for the app windows (like HTTP Auth for an example) where they almost always have a username/password field and nothing else.
Continuing that, when the HTTP Auth window is displayed, is the 1P plug-in able to execute?
The HTTP Auth window is a part of the browser, not part of the site. The extension can only inject itself into the website's source code where it can do its thing, the HTTP Auth window isn't accessible to our extension scripts. There are some low-level APIs we can use in Chrome and Firefox only but it is not a sure thing. We might not be able to adopt these APIs due to how it works.
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