Families need a Windows solution
Congratulations on the Families announcement! You guys exceeded my expectations on pricing and features. I expected to pay more and I didn't expect that you'd try to tailor the offering specifically for families vs. just make it the Team version.
My family of four uses a motley collection of PCs, laptops, tablets, and phones. Mac, iOS, Windows, Android. With 1Password 6 having shipped for Android, the current outlier is the poor Windows version.
I took a look at the Windows 10 universal app beta. It's coming along but it's hard to see it as a potential replacement for the desktop version given that it only currently works with its built-in browser. That's just not an option for us. I really hope you have a Team/Families capable Windows version dropping imminently.
Congrats again on the announcement!
1Password Version: Not Provided
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Sync Type: Not Provided
Comments
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My family of four also uses many different devices. I don't know why the Windows Desktop version is so poor in relation to the Mac version. Why is it so hard to just design it the same way on both Desktop platforms?
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Hello, everyone!
Thanks for taking the time to let us know that having 1Password for Families support on Windows is vital! We appreciate your passion.
We don't talk a whole lot about future plans, but can I promise that we're working on making sure that you're taken care of. We'll announce more information as soon as it's ready.
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Plus one from me on this. The only thing stopping me signing up is the lack of Windows support.
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Thanks for the vote, @AndrewKing. Bringing Teams/Families support to Windows desktop is definitely one of our top priorities.
Ben
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I'm also waiting on this, not that that's news...my biggest issue with signing up for Families is that I want to sign up prior to the Launch Special ending to get the bonuses but I can't use Teams/Families until there's Windows support (10 Beta doesn't count, I don't like it :-) so the free time could go to waste while I wait for support to make it usable. I'll probably do it anyway...
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+1 on this. My family and I use Windows, Mac, and iOS, with computer use split pretty evenly across Windows/Mac. Without a functional Windows client, this is not really a viable option for us. I'm somewhat surprised that Families would launch when the Windows software either doesn't support it at all (1Password 4 for Windows), or is in official beta status without any browser support (Windows Store app beta). It makes your support for Windows feel like an afterthought (truthfully, it kind of already did).
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Hi @BryanGS,
I see where you are coming from, but the fact of the matter is that a lot goes into making a new release. A big piece that, which is often ignored, is finding and hiring the right people with the right skills and above all else, passion. The Mac team had already been formed and had a few victories under there belt before they even started on teams, so it's perfectly natural that they would be able to move faster.
The size of the Windows team was tripled before teams was released, or for that matter, before it existed as a proof of concept. We're working our ways towards feature parity and we will get there. We just need time.
We certainly value our customers who use Windows, and in fact many of us here at AgileBits now also use Windows in conjunction with OS X. We want access to Teams on Windows just as much as you do. ;)
Your point is well taken. Unfortunately I don't have an immediate answer to that concern, other than to say we're working very hard on getting Windows ready for Teams/Families.
Ben
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@bwoodruff That's great to hear. I suppose my comment sounded harsh because I really do like 1Password and use it extensively, and I want to be able to recommend it to other, mostly Windows-using, people I know. Thanks for your dedication!
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Hi BryanGS,
We don't consider telling us your feelings on our product offering to be harsh at all. All of this feedback, both positive and negative, is important. We consider it all when planning future releases.
Thanks for taking the time to let us know!
Cheers,
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Hi, @ninjawa.
I understand your disappointment, and I wish we had the resources to finish the new Windows app more quickly. Unfortunately, at this time, I can only suggest you go ahead and sign up for the family account if you're interested in the special. You will be able to manage the account, invite people, and even add items right from the web app, so you can start to see if it's right for your family.
After adding a family account to a client app, it's not very different from using regular local vaults. The power and benefits of the family account come from the Admin Console where you can easily manage who is on your account, grant access to vaults effortlessly without worrying about sync, and recover someone's account if they've forgotten their Master Password. All those things you can try out today with the free trial. Chances are, if you like what you see in the web app, you'll be more than happy with the Windows client as well, since it will just be the same kind of experience as the current Windows client, except without the hassle of managing multiple vaults.
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Somehow I disagree to Robs message. Currently there is simply not a real experience on Windows. The Windows 10 Beta I would see as a proof of concept but it isn't fully usable at the moment. The app does basic vault operations and provides an own browser (1Browser). But it isn't possible even on Windows 10 machines to use 1Password Family with browser extensions.
@dahanbn: That's correct. The 1Password for Windows 10 beta app is a UWP (Universal Windows Platform) app through the Windows Store, and much like iOS apps these are sandboxed and restricted in ways that traditional desktop apps are not. It is not possible (and may never be) to have it connect to the browser extensions. That's why we're including the built in browser. Interestingly, this is currently the only way that anyone can use Edge in this fashion. I kind of like it because of that, and I find myself using it more and more. And of course for tablet and phone users, this app's existence is crucial.
Of course, there is still the web app but it isn't capable to fulfill the needs of daily use (filling passwords, detecting new logins or password changes, easy management within vaults with tags, Watchtower, passwords audits). For some could be the missing localisation also be an issue.
And on earlier Windows versions there is still no support of teams/family in the near future. The client apps are still lacking on Windows and will possibly for a while. Overall I think it will take a longer transition phase. Even the current 1Password 4 for Windows is in many areas far behind the Mac version (tag management, smart folders, multiple vault handling, vault file format, ...). Although AgileBits is constantly improving that one as well.Absolutely! Along with the desire for full browser integration, we're working on bringing a native 1Password for Teams/Families experience to Windows 7 and up with an updated desktop app. We don't have anything to show you right now, but rest assured that we'll be excited to announce it when we do! ;)
I personally think that kind of sucks the excitement out of the whole "early adopter" concept (a later early adopter?), but it's certainly something we can consider.
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Thanks for the response, @rob. I will more than likely sign up for the account anyway, but I'm still hesitant. I'm not sure how much I would get out of it because I'm unsure of how quickly a proper Windows app will be finished.
Like @dahanbn said, the current experience on Windows is rather lacking. I use 1Password 4 on Windows on a daily basis with the Chrome browser extension. The lack of browser extensions with the Windows 10 Beta makes it so that the app isn't very useful to me. Another huge thing that I find lacking in the Windows 10 Beta is the inability to change the master password for team/family accounts. Since I don't own a Mac and the web app doesn't currently support changing master passwords, I'm stuck with my current master password (even though I would like to change it before adding family members).
After adding a family account to a client app, it's not very different from using regular local vaults. The power and benefits of the family account come from the Admin Console where you can easily manage who is on your account, grant access to vaults effortlessly without worrying about sync, and recover someone's account if they've forgotten their Master Password. All those things you can try out today with the free trial. Chances are, if you like what you see in the web app, you'll be more than happy with the Windows client as well, since it will just be the same kind of experience as the current Windows client, except without the hassle of managing multiple vaults.
Since I'm in the beta program for 1Password for Teams, I've been playing around with it for a little bit already. Although account management is pretty easy, I still find the web app to be a bit lacking (namely the inability to change the master password mentioned above). I'm a little unsure if you're referencing the current Windows client (1Password 4 for Windows) or the Windows 10 Beta. If you're referencing 1Password 4, I like it a lot. If it's the Windows 10 Beta, it feels very limiting compared to 1Password 4 and often find myself frustrated.
Of course, there is still the web app but it isn't capable to fulfill the needs of daily use (filling passwords, detecting new logins or password changes, easy management within vaults with tags, Watchtower, passwords audits). For some could be the missing localisation also be an issue.
And on earlier Windows versions there is still no support of teams/family in the near future. The client apps are still lacking on Windows and will possibly for a while. Overall I think it will take a longer transition phase. Even the current 1Password 4 for Windows is in many areas far behind the Mac version (tag management, smart folders, multiple vault handling, vault file format, ...). Although AgileBits is constantly improving that one as well.Absolutely! Along with the desire for full browser integration, we're working on bringing a native 1Password for Teams/Families experience to Windows 7 and up with an updated desktop app. We don't have anything to show you right now, but rest assured that we'll be excited to announce it when we do! ;)
This is very exciting. If I were to sign up for 1Password for Families, I would be adding my mother. She's currently running Windows 7 on her computer due to certain software incompatibilities with Windows 10.
I personally think that kind of sucks the excitement out of the whole "early adopter" concept (a later early adopter?), but it's certainly something we can consider.
I agree with @dahanbn, an early adopter special for Windows users would be great. I don't think this would suck the excitement out of the concept. Honestly, I think the concept of asking Windows users to sign up for the special (if we want the special benefits) when there isn't a fully functional Windows version is a huge disappointment and makes it less exciting.
Despite these disappointments, I'm looking forward to what your Windows team puts together! I hope I'm not coming off as too critical. I am, in fact, enjoying my 1Password experience so far after switching over from LastPass. I just don't want to try to integrate my parents into a half-baked system, especially since they're often not the best with new technology/programs. I'm currently trying to convince them to move away from writing down passwords in a notebook and would love to comfortably be able to recommend 1Password (specifically 1Password for Families) to them.
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@ninjawa: Thanks for the feedback! Constructive criticism is always welcome. You're absolutely right: having a native Windows app (not only for Windows 10, but also 7 and 8) is critical. As you can imagine, those of us using Windows every day are just as anxious as you are to get an update to the desktop app with Teams/Families support — perhaps more so!
I'm sorry that the current situation has dampened your enthusiasm for 1Password for Families/Teams. It's entirely up to you, but I signed up to get the bonus and get familiar with it, and keep in mind that there's no payment info so you don't have to worry about paying until 1Password for Windows is ready for you (and your family!) And frankly, as a person in a very similar situation, even if it were ready on all platforms, I wouldn't want to move my family onto something new without familiarizing myself with it first. ;)
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@Bernfrin: I didn't say that anything "sucks". I said that it "sucks the excitement out of the whole 'early adopter' concept". The context is pretty important, I think. :(
No one is being punished, but if it feels like that, I am truly sorry. Just keep in mind that I am right there with you: I'm looking forward to having a native 1Password for Windows desktop app with 1Password for Teams/Families support.
If you're impression is that I'm trivializing or insulting my own experience of not having 1Password for Teams/Families in a native app I can use on Windows 7, I hope you'll re-read what I've written and reconsider.
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Maybe you should think about a non sandboxed companion app that talks to the family cloud and communicates locally to browser extensions. That could do the magic trick. In that case the Windows 10 Store app would provide vault and family plan management and talking to your cloud. I don't know the Mac stuff but isn't 1Password Mini also somehow complementary?
That is indeed something we're very strongly looking into. And you are entirely correct in that Mac essentially works in this manner. All the heavy lifting is done by Mini, and the browser extensions are much smaller bits of JavaScript code that can pull from Mini.
Sorry, but it is trivializing the situation when you and your fellow support staff continuously point to the Windows 10 1Password beta (which only a relatively small group of people can or want to use) or you keep telling people that they can sign up for Families (or Teams) and use the web experience until the Windows team builds a suitable app. The web "app" is a very limited use solution.
I'd disagree that the web experience is "very limited use." I'd also disagree that only a small group can/want to use the Windows 10 app. You're absolutely right, as has been admitted a number of times, we're in desperate need of a Windows 7 solution. But other than the web app there isn't one currently. I apologize if you feel trivialized by it, but the reason we keep mentioning these items is because they are what is currently available. I don't have any other way of helping folks with the situation at present. All I can do is explain the current state of things and continue to encourage and support our Windows development teams.
I get the fact that the initial resources were put into building a proper OSx experience as OSx is the AgileBits flagship product and therefore gets the most attention. I also get that the Windows team is a small team and they are working as fast as they can (that has been repeatedly hammered into Windows users).
I'm not sure what else I'd be able to say. :)
Ben
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Can you confirm that that Mini version is currently in development?
All I can say at this stage is that we are investigating whether such a thing would be possible, and would allow for access to browser extensions on Windows 10 with a modern app such is possible on Mac.
Don't understand me wrong. I am very passionate about 1Password and would directly use and recommend it if it were more functional on my main platform (Windows).
That is very evident, and we appreciate that passion.
Frankly I don't think we disagree on any of these points really, yet it seems we keep rehashing them. :( We might see them in a slightly different light, but ultimately we know and agree that a native & capable Windows client (or, two) is needed.
Now something else: Do you have two Windows teams? Each for Windows legacy app and the Windows 10 Beta? Or does the Windows team have to work on both projects at once?
We have two Windows teams internally. There is some crossover, but for the most part we have developers working on 1Password 4 for Windows, and developers working on 1Password for Windows 10.
Ben
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Hi @Bernfrin,
We have a team working on the 1Password for Teams and Families version of the app and they're doing the best they can. Since it had to be written from the ground up, it's taking longer than it did to add features to the apps for our other platforms.
I'm sorry I can't be more specific about timelines. We'd love to be able to release something now, but we're just not there yet.
Thanks for letting us know how much you need this client and how passionate you are about it!
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Thanks for the confirmations about how the teams are organized, I was curious about that myself. I read everything, and don't have much more to add other than that I am sad it's not ready but excited it's in the works (on the Windows desktop app with Teams/Families support, that will also likely be much faster than the current Win app :-) But, I would say that having an "early Windows adopters special" does not feel like it would take away from a special for other early adopters--seems that would be worth even more celebration and excitement in fact :-) However, there's a chance I'll subscribe to Families even without a Windows app, I just won't use it (I'm in the beta now, awaiting ability to convert Team to Family, but can't keep anything in there). I do disagree that the web version is full-featured--you can't integrate with browsers (95% of usage, Edge doesn't count) and you can't even change your master password there (I looked for several minutes before finally figuring out from another forum post I needed to use Mac or iOS), so while it's a nice additional interface in a pinch, it's really only useful about 5% of the time for not all features, and thus is not "full-featured"...but we're splitting hairs here so I'm done...still love 1Password with all it's flaws, I'll be here still when Windows is updated!
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I started this thread and have been reading people's comments over the past couple of days.
I think the criticism and frustration from people in this thread is actually fairly warranted.
The current version of 1Password on Windows is really frustrating to use. It's not just that the aging UX is frustrating...it's the fact that it doesn't support tags, has a miserable experience for creating/editing custom properties, and has just generally drifted from the user model of the Android, iOS, and Mac versions. It barely feels as if it's produced by the same company that creates the versions on other platforms.
Rather than go hard on fixing the current release, your energy is now being split across two Windows releases. One of those releases is virtually non functional. It can't be used to edit content synced via DropBox and doesn't work with browser extensions. The other - an update to the desktop version - has been hinted at but without any semblance of a timeline.
Like other folks, I'm a bit irked that people are being pointed to the Windows 10 release as if it's actually in a usable state. It isn't. My choice of browser ranges from Chrome to Firefox but under no circumstances will my Windows choice of browser ever be 1Browser inside of 1Password.
I'm ready to move to Families. I actually really want to make the change. I am convinced that I will prefer that product over the current product + DropBox for a multitude of reasons. But I'm also fairly convinced that I won't be able to make that transition until you've shipped either a fully functional Windows 10 app that supports browser extensions or you've shipped an update to the desktop app. I don't need both of those. I need one. Hopefully soon.
Please consider shifting your resources over to the desktop app. I actually think that's the best way for you to get the reach and features you need to succeed. I fully understand that the UWP app is the path to supporting both desktop and Windows Phone but I personally think that can wait.
Just my two cents.
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Thanks for the feedback, @zendnez. :)
To everyone, we understand the necessity of a full-fledged desktop app for Windows that supports family accounts, browser extensions, and Windows 7. That's been said many times already, along with the fact that we're getting closer every day.
If you are looking for a stable solution for your family to use right now, you need to use 1Password 4 for Windows and sync vaults through Dropbox. That's just how things currently stand. I'd still love for you to also create a family account and try it out, even if you can't use it day to day. That's what the Early Adopter Special is for – it's for users who are willing to put up with the rough edges that come with being an early adopter and provide valuable feedback along the way. It's also a way for us to thank our existing customers and provide a sort of discount.
If you're familiar with AgileBits, you know that we do sales and specials often, whether for holidays, special events, or just because we haven't had one in a while. There will certainly be more of those in the future. We aren't penalizing anyone for not signing up early. We are rewarding those who do. Who knows if we'll have another special when the Windows 7 app is done, maybe we will. I don't think it's a bad idea, but it's not my call. In any case, the Windows 7 app will not be stable by March 21, so your decision to sign up or not should be based on the current state of things. Considering the current state of things is that you get access to the full web client for 30 days at 0 cost, plus the early adopter special, it seems like an obvious decision to me. ;)
I'm on the web team, not the Windows team, but I really appreciate hearing the pain points people are experiencing. It helps us know where to focus. Unfortunately, when it comes to this discussion about the Windows app, we can't say anything more than what's been said.
I love you guys, and I hope that's helpful. <3
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Sorry, but it is trivializing the situation when you and your fellow support staff continuously point to the Windows 10 1Password beta (which only a relatively small group of people can or want to use) or you keep telling people that they can sign up for Families (or Teams) and use the web experience until the Windows team builds a suitable app.
@Bernfrin: No. It isn't trivializing anything. This is fact: these are the options that we all have — you and me both, and everyone else concerned — on Windows currently. It would be absurd for us to pretend like they don't exist. Suggesting that people use the tools available to them while we work on both improving those and adding more is the only reasonable approach.
My point is, AgileBits has to stop trying to convince Windows customers that if they sign up now to get the early adopter benefits, they will have the same experience as the Mac users who have already been provided with an excellent experience. Bottom line, Windows users should not have to sign up now to get the early adopter benefits - they most assuredly should be given a grace period until a Windows product that ALL Windows users can use has been released.
If you want "early adopter" benefits, you need to be an early adopter. It's that simple. If you don't want to, or feel it isn't worth your time given the lack of a Windows 7/8 desktop app, that's entirely up to you, and you're free to not sign up and get months of 1Password for Families for free along with other bonuses that you'll have for the lifetime of the account.
Regarding a Windows "1Password mini" and the folks we have working on the Windows 10 and Windows desktop apps' future releases and features, we don't have anymore details to share at this time. Expanding on what Aleen said, I will add that the 1Password for Windows 10 team doesn't have the same legacy constraints (not supporting 7 or 8, and starting with 1Password for Teams support) that the Windows desktop app encompasses.
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