Families need a Windows solution
Comments
-
I think the criticism and frustration from people in this thread is actually fairly warranted.
@zendnez: I couldn't agree more. However, it's important to keep in mind that no amount of debate will change the fact that the 1Password for Windows desktop client for 1Password for Families/Teams isn't ready. We're working hard on it, but we're not there yet.
Rather than go hard on fixing the current release, your energy is now being split across two Windows releases. One of those releases is virtually non functional. It can't be used to edit content synced via DropBox and doesn't work with browser extensions. The other - an update to the desktop version - has been hinted at but without any semblance of a timeline.
This is a great point. Unfortunately this is the current state of the Windows platform. On the one hand, we really needed a touch-friendly app that could run well on tablets and phones, as it's something our customers (and team members!) have been asking for. Microsoft made this decision a bit easier by making it possible to develop a single app for all Windows 10 devices, so it will work on desktops, laptops, and convertibles too. So we've been working on that app for the Windows Store.
But then of course we also need a more traditional desktop app, especially since not everyone is using Windows 10. Even if they were, I think that we can all agree that there really are still two worlds (touch and mouse/keyboard) that don't overlap completely when it comes to user interface. And of course Windows Store apps cannot interact with other apps. So we're working on a Windows desktop app that can integrate with browsers and run on older versions of Windows as well.
Like other folks, I'm a bit irked that people are being pointed to the Windows 10 release as if it's actually in a usable state. It isn't. My choice of browser ranges from Chrome to Firefox but under no circumstances will my Windows choice of browser ever be 1Browser inside of 1Password.
That's your call, as everyone has different needs. Personally, I enjoy using the built-in browser. It works well, and I think it's cool that it's actually the only way for anyone to integrate with Edge currently — and I'm really liking Edge!
If you don't like it, don't use it. We're only pointing it out because people ask "How can I use 1Password for Teams/Families on Windows?" and that (and the web interface) is the answer. It's what I use. And though it may not be to your taste or meet all of your needs, it's useful to a lot of people. So let's not overlook that.
I'm ready to move to Families. I actually really want to make the change. I am convinced that I will prefer that product over the current product + DropBox for a multitude of reasons. But I'm also fairly convinced that I won't be able to make that transition until you've shipped either a fully functional Windows 10 app that supports browser extensions or you've shipped an update to the desktop app. I don't need both of those. I need one. Hopefully soon.
I hope so too! I completely relate to your excitement and frustration! As you can imagine, I've been using 1Password for Teams for a bit longer than you have, and I experience the lack of a complete Windows solution every day. Sure, I've got some Windows 10 hardware, and I like the app we have there, but browser integration is sorely missed, and on Windows 7 and 8 I have only the web interface. It's great to have, but you're absolutely right: it's not the same.
Please consider shifting your resources over to the desktop app. I actually think that's the best way for you to get the reach and features you need to succeed. I fully understand that the UWP app is the path to supporting both desktop and Windows Phone but I personally think that can wait.
Just my two cents.The truth is that UWP is "easier" to do, so it's progressed much faster than the desktop app (which needs to work not only with browsers, but also 3 distinctly different versions of Windows). Telling the folks working on 1Password for Windows 10 to put it on hold wouldn't actually help the desktop app get done any faster. They're very different beasts. So that would leave us with two unfinished apps instead of "only" one. Granted, I know you don't personally care about the Windows 10 app, but a lot of other people depend on it, and making a move like that would hurt them without actually helping you.
0 -
Regarding the "early adopter" questions, let's put this in perspective using an example of what I would do in your situation:
- Sign up.
- Get early adopter benefits (free months, extra storage, additional members)
- Don't pay; wait for Windows desktop app.
- When Windows desktop app is available, reactivate your subscription and pay.
- Enjoy the early adopter benefits and the Windows desktop app.
For obvious reasons (not the least of which that I use Windows along with the other platforms), I'll be skipping step 3. But if I used Windows exclusively I probably wouldn't subscribe to something without a Windows app either.
Again, this is just what I'd do in your shoes. The choice is yours. The only thing we can do is continue to work on our 1Password for Families/Teams support on Windows, and offer our current options (web interface, Windows 10 app) in the mean time. I'm sorry that it isn't the answer you're looking for, but for now at least this is the situation. :(
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
This content has been removed.
-
Bottom line, and I'm sure I am not alone - I certainly am not going to pay for something that I cannot have full use of.
@Bernfrin: I can get behind that. No argument here. It's our job to get it done so that's no longer a roadblock for you or anyone else. :blush:
As a consumer, I am not in the habit of making a purchase now for a product that will not be fully functional until some future to be determined date. Agile Bits is telling their Windows customers - "We cant tell you when the product will be available, but trust us, you will like the product that we refuse to give you any concrete information about".
I agree with your policy here, but it doesn't seem to apply in this case, since my suggestion was to not pay us until we're able to meet your requirements. Regardless, we've got work to do to earn your loyalty. I think that at least we can agree on fully.
Maybe you could also consider a third option: Besides the different Windows solutions it might be possible to develop cross plattform browser extensions that directly communicate with your AgileBits cloud. In that way I could use it directly with that extension without the need of installing locally an extra piece of your software (admin privileges needed).
@dahanbn: It's certainly an interesting idea, but one that would require even more work (across multiple browsers and platforms) and time. Definitely not something we can accomplish short-term, so that unfortunately wouldn't help with the current Windows situation. :(
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
I believe AgileBits (@brenty at least) has mentioned twice now that they are advocating signing up for the FREE beta and then NOT paying for a subscription (or using it) until Windows is available. They're saying if you signed up for the beta, when Windows comes out you'll be able to take advantage of the early adopter benefits and start paying THEN for the subscription, at least that's my reading of the "see Option 3 above" notes. Which I think is fair, and probably the way I'll end up going myself as I'm a heavy Windows user and also looking forward to the updated release, though I understand the development issues.
It's #3 in the list at https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/286153/#Comment_286153 above.
0 -
@dszp is correct, though you do need to add a credit card to your account in order to get the launch special. From the settings page in the Families dashboard:
Soon you will be able to add your Credit Card here and get the Special Launch Special!
- $10 added to your account (an extra 2 months free)
- Twice the amount of secure storage for your documents (that’s 2 GB)
- The ability to invite two more family members for free (a total of 7 family members!)
The latter two are permanent upgrades to your account, and so even if you can't take full advantage of the service now, signing up for an account and adding a valid credit card (once billing is enabled) will get you the early adopter bonuses.
Ben
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
I've used 1Password for years and Windows has definitely always felt like a second class citizen. I'm glad and hoping to see it come into parity with the Mac experience, but it's been a LONG time coming. We're years in and still two major version off from the Mac version. I do, however, think your product has the best feature sets and most thought out way of use.
The lack of a timeline is what makes me start considering other avenues for my password needs. I trust your development team has to have some kind of roadmap. Even if you were to say "Q316" as the potential release point, at least that is something with some meat to it I can get behind and have some expectation towards. Right now it's very ephemeral and I think that's what drives people crazy.
0 -
Hi @1pbgdc
I can understand that. But I think it drives people more crazy when we say we think it'll be available Q3 2016 and then isn't until Q1 2017 because of bugs found in beta testing, all as examples.
As a general rule, we don't discuss timeframes for upcoming features / products. I know that is frustrating, but I imagine it is less so than if we were to give you a timeframe and have our estimate be way off.
Ben
0 -
@brenty Thanks for the Mythical Man Month link. I know the material well - I first read the book around '93. Didn't have Wikipedia or even Amazon then. Actually had to drive to a bookstore to get it then had to flip pages. I still have that paper copy :)
MMM is a helpful lens to look through but it's not a magical talisman to be waved at suggestions for considering resource re-allocation. Tactical changes in resourcing can often get a project completed much, much quicker. Of course I have no clue about your current resourcing situation, skill sets, all the goals you're trying to achieve, etc. so I really have no business in this conversation :)
The point I really want to make is that "1 Something" is better than "2 Nothings". Right now, we have "2 Nothings" on Windows. Finishing one or the other quickly, at the opportunity cost of the other, might make sense.
I'm going to let you guys get back to work. Thanks for hanging out here and talking with your customers and for maintaining positive attitudes in spite of the mob attack. If any of you are ever in the Seattle area, drop me a note and I'll buy you a beer. Seriously.
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
Rob addressed most of these points here: https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/286141/#Comment_286141
But I'll try to answer more directly:
1) I'd say that it is unlikely that we will have a stable (i.e. non-beta) release of the Windows 7 compatible application with Teams/Families support within the next 2-3 months. I don't have any real insider knowledge here, but just looking at the typical software development life cycle it doesn't seem we'd be able to: finish development of a beta, push that beta out, have it tested thoroughly, work out all of the important kinks, write up documentation, and everything else that goes along with releasing a new software product in that short amount of time. How much longer after that will it be? I really couldn't guess. But you can keep an eye out for some of these milestones to get an idea of where we're at. Along with that, I'm sure our Windows team would be very happy to have someone as passionate as you are about our Windows product helping us beta test it, when we get to that stage.
2) If you haven't canceled your subscription by the end of the "free" period, then yes, your card will be charged at that point regardless of what platform you or your family / team members are accessing the service from. If you do choose to cancel your subscription before that point you will not be charged, your data will go into read-only mode, and you can re-activate full functionality by re-activating your subscription.
3) As Rob mentioned we run promotions fairly often. Some of them will be more or less beneficial to each individual than others. Everyone here can benefit from the permanent additions that will be added to their account if they take advantage. I'm sorry that you feel that as a Windows user you will not be able to take full advantage of the additional free time because we will not have a stable Windows 7 compatible release before the end of it. Hopefully we can offer other promotions in the future that will be more attractive to you. For example, we have a set of Quests within the web app that help you setup your team and make you and expert. Once you finish all of them you get an additional month free. You could wait until the Windows 7 app is available to complete the last step of this quest and redeem your free month.
Ben
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
@Bernfrin, I'm sorry, I still really don't understand the problem. If you sign up now and don't add a credit card, you've got the early adopter benefits and you won't be charged. That's 0 cost (as I said in my last comment) so I'm completely missing how it hurts anyone. If you don't add your credit card, your account will go into read-only mode after the 30-day trial, but until the Windows apps are ready, that doesn't really matter, right?
There was a miscommunication that caused Ben to say you have to add a card to get the special, so maybe that was the problem?
This whole thread has been filled with honest (based on our knowledge) answers. There is nothing more productive that we can do with this conversation. We are offering the early special to everyone who signs up now, even if they don't start paying immediately, and we are working on the Windows app. That summarizes this whole thread.
0 -
Thanks for your frank outlook @bwoodruff. It's difficult to hear that we're looking at months, not weeks, for a Windows <10 solution. But I'd rather set my expectations appropriately.
What's your suggestion for those, like me, who have used up their Windows 1PW 4 Trial licence and are subscribed to 1PW Family? My work PC is Windows and although I'm on it all day, I find I'm now managing two sets of Vaults (one for 1PW 4, and one for 1PW family) and my on my PC I can access, but can add anything to my 1PW 4 Vault.
Do you have someway to bridge us? Maybe expend the 1PW 4 trial for a while? I cannot see buying it, but it's really difficult day-in day-out straddling this licensing situation.
0 -
What's your suggestion for those, like me, who have used up their Windows 1PW 4 Trial licence and are subscribed to 1PW Family? My work PC is Windows and although I'm on it all day, I find I'm now managing two sets of Vaults (one for 1PW 4, and one for 1PW family) and my on my PC I can access, but can add anything to my 1PW 4 Vault.
@Dig_Doug: Great question, and I can answer this from experience!
Honestly, I primarily use the 1Password for Windows 10 beta lately, since it can access both 1Password for Teams/Families vaults and also "local" vaults from the standalone app(s). Data that I occasionally need to access using the Windows desktop app is in my Dropbox vaults; whereas "everything else" is in my 1Password for Families/Teams vaults, which can be accessed both through the beta app and the web interface as needed.
Granted, what works for me may not fit into your workflow, but hopefully that gives you some ideas. In the future, I'll likely be using 1Password for Teams/Families (almost) exclusively, once the Windows desktop app supports it. You can also use the trial indefinitely. I hope this helps! :)
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
My biggest wish to see improvements for your non-Mac users. And you should work consistently to maintain feature parity on all your platforms.
We agree, and we're working toward that. Android just recently got a huge bump. It just takes time.
Also: Mac & iOS are able to share code, which is something none of the other platforms can do (perhaps with the small exception of some of the browser extensions). This is part of the reason why iOS is closer in functionality to Mac, and also they were released closer together on the timeline.
Mac was our first product, followed by iOS, then Windows, then Android. So it makes sense, although obviously not ideal, that Windows and Android would be a bit behind. Those teams are working very hard to catch up. We definitely want to have feature parity across the platforms we support, where possible/practical, but that is a long term goal. It isn't something that is going to / can happen in the short term. We continue to make progress with each release though. :)
Ben
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
How soon is soon?
We can't answer that. Mostly because we don't have the answer. Sorry.
Ben
0 -
I hadn't seen it before now, so I wanted to make sure other folks saw Dave's post here that talks about the missteps of the Families launch where Windows is concerned and also the status of 1Password on Windows: https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/282645/#Comment_282645
0 -
I don't think I've seen it mentioned yet, so: I'm getting the distinct impression that going forward the Windows 10 "Windows Store" version is going to be the main way of utilising 1Password on Windows, with the Desktop app kept around for legacy purposes and being pushed aside as more people make the leap from Windows 7/8. Is that an accurate assessment? Either way, have you considered that many who use Windows 10 (especially the sorts of privacy/security conscious people who use 1Password) refuse to tie a Microsoft Account to their machines (and all the horrors that go along with that) and therefore cannot and/or refuse to use the Windows Store?
Personally I'm lucky in a way as I choose to use Macs, but I do have to use Windows a lot. Therefore 1Password would be absolutely useless to me in the Windows Store, to me if it's in that store then it might as well not exist at all.
Not a criticism as such... just something to bear in mind I think. I'm sure I'm not alone in being forced into using Windows 10 despite my better judgement. :)
0 -
It is likely that the "Windows 10 app" and the "desktop application" will both be around and serve separate purposes for some time to come. The Windows 10 app will be what people will need to use 1Password on Windows phone, and on Windows tablets. It'll also be available to those who want to have a lightweight interface to 1Password on their Windows 10 desktop. The desktop app will, when the new version is complete, be the replacement for the existing desktop version (but w/ Families/Teams support).
I hope that helps!
Ben
0 -
That's reassuring @bwoodruff, thanks.
0 -
You're welcome, @megalomaniac. If we can be of further assistance, please don't hesitate to contact us.
Ben
0 -
Have 1Password Families and have it installed on Mac and iPhone, including Chrome extension. On a Windows 10 machine, installing 1Password 4 asks to link to a backup which we obviously do not have because it sits in the cloud rather than a local drive. So, we installed the Beta version for Windows 10 which works but appears not to have a helper app. As a result, we are unable to install the Chrome extension which is really the ONLY app we constantly use (we never open the desktop app). So, how can one get the Chrome extension working in Windows 10 with a "Families" account?
1Password Version: 2016.3.2800
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Windows 10
Sync Type: Families, i.e. 1Password cloud
Referrer: forum-search:family chrome extension0
