Feedback on the new 1Password mini

beeba

It'd be great if you had a colored icon, as I tend to have a LOT of stuff in my menubar, and it'd be nice to be able to pick it out by color!

AGKyle

I don't know if you all seen it yet, but open up iTunes or the Mac App Store, and bring up the mini.

EnerJi

@AGKyle That's amazing! I don't suppose the new Mini is capable of filling in an application like the Mac App store? I imagine we still need to copy and paste, but this will still make things much easier.

jfelchner

@beeba absolutely not. 😂

AGKyle

@EnerJi copy and paste only, but yes, this is a definite improvement that makes it a little easier. It should work for a variety of applications that do logins in an app. If you encounter an app that doesn't work with it though let us know and we'll see about getting it fixed up.

AGAlumB

I'm going to give it some time to adjust personally, but one thing I already don't like is it being untethered. Previously I knew that if I clicked in it in the browser, the menu would be right there, if I did it from the menu bar, boom there's the menu right there.
Now it's just in one place. On a 4k display with my browser on the left, it's either going to be way over to the right if I leave it by the menu, or over to the left if I leave it there (but won't adjust position when I change the browser size).
My guess is it's designed to sit in the middle of the screen?

@mlebarron: By default, yes. Now, I don't want to tell you how to live your life, but I have to say that whenever I've used a large display, I've really enjoyed using keyboard navigation for this reason. No matter what you do, with that much screen real estate, the mouse is going to be far, far away from something. So while you're not wrong, and you can move 1Password mini pretty much anywhere you want it, I think you'll find that using the keyboard helps you much more than anything we can do to improve mouse navigation in that context. Definitely give it a try. We'll continue to work on improving both, and over time I think we can probably meet in the middle, with you getting used to some changes and us making it easier to work with. Cheers! :)

mlebarron

@brenty I agree, sort of :) I never found 1Password to navigate easily with a keyboard, but maybe the new mini interface will make it better, who knows. I definitely prefer staying on the keyboard when I can.

The "disagree" part is on what's expected. I definitely don't expect clicking on something in the menu bar to appear in the middle of my screen. If I click the menu bar, it should be there; I'm using the mouse, I clicked there, that's where it should be. Same for clicking anything really, when I click somewhere, the result should be there, not halfway across the screen. Notably spotlight also breaks this, but the difference is there's nothing for me to do in spotlight with a mouse, so I never click it. 1Password does have things to do with the mouse, many things actually.

AGAlumB

@danvpeterson says: “...the old mini was pretty great but any time you wanted to do something beyond that [a quick search and fill] it broke down for many people.” In my opinion, “something beyond” a quick search is what the main application is for.

@verdi1987: I tend to agree with you...but I interact with many people on a daily basis for whom the main 1Password app effectively does not exist. A lot of people have installed only an extension expecting to use 1Password that way. With 1Password X, that's now actually possible in many cases. And it's been very popular as a result. And even when people are using 1Password for Mac in the technical sense that they have it installed and that runs the browser extension, a large portion of the 1Password userbase opens the main app window rarely if at all. So while there's still room for improvement, I do think this is the direction we need to go to make the power of 1Password more accessible to people where they use it most — in their browser. I think it's important that we take into consideration how people actually use 1Password, as that will help more people...which of course is why we're putting it out here for you folks to test and provide feedback. Thank you for doing so! :)

AGAlumB

I can see the advantages of the new 'mini' but would it be possible to change its size, especially for a small screen?

@HRD: It's resizable, but I agree that we could probably make it tighter to fit better on small screens — and I know I'm not alone. Thanks for the feedback! :)

ref: apple-1299

AGAlumB

But after some time working with it, I realize its power. Chances are great that you don't have to use 1password main window that often. Give it some time to get used to it! Information you don't need (categories, tags, smart folders) can be disabled in an easy way.

@Holgerr: Thanks for the feedback! Indeed, I think it's a bit unfair as we've had more time to play with it ourselves. It's definitely different, and has both pros and cons. I think the best thing is for us all to live with it a bit, and then we'll be able to see what areas really need improving still, and also the ways that it can help our workflows to be able to do more there. I feel it's a bit big sometimes too, but I love that I can do a quick edit to an item inline — no opening the main window, or using a popout with a tiny (x) I have to click to close it after. Cheers! :)

HRD

Hi @brenty,

As far as I can tell it is not possible to make the mini smaller only larger. I therefore look forward to a tweak being made.

verdi1987

I kept trying to click the toggle icon under Suggested Items to see what it would do. Then I realized it’s the AgileBits icon.

AGAlumB

Now, I do like doing away with the flyout menus. Those were finicky. But I wonder if there's a way to deemphasize the sidebar. For example, making the sidebar collapsible. Likewise, when searching, maybe the item view doesn't have to be shown immediately on the right; it could be hidden until the user navigates to it. Maybe both of those are bad ideas, and I'm sure there are better ideas, but (somehow) making mini feel more like a 1-column interface might make it feel more like a utility and less like an app.

@nils_enevoldsen: That's an interesting take. Some things to consider for sure. I'm also glad to get away from the flyout menus, and we'll see what we can do to make mini feel more comfortable as we all get used to it. Thanks for the feedback on this! :)

AGAlumB

I agree that the new “mini” is just too heavy. But l love the direction of the new “Suggestions” feature. My suggestion would be to return it to a smaller, single column UI that shows the ”Login” for the current website, then ”Identities”, “Credit Cards”, and then “Password Generator”. And underneath all that a mechanism to navigate the entire 1PW vault via submenus. That would be the best of both worlds IMO.

@OAW: I'm personally a bit relieved to get away from the flyout menus, which always felt a bit slower than I liked, but we'll see if we can make it more compact. I suspect that most of the folks wishing for this are using Macs at the smaller end of the spectrum. Cheers! :)

AGAlumB

@brenty I agree, sort of :) I never found 1Password to navigate easily with a keyboard, but maybe the new mini interface will make it better, who knows. I definitely prefer staying on the keyboard when I can.

@mlebarron: That's fair. Indeed, the flyout menus were not great for that. We've had great feedback from keyboard navigation in 1Password X, and we're working to make 1Password for Mac better at this too. :chuffed:

The "disagree" part is on what's expected. I definitely don't expect clicking on something in the menu bar to appear in the middle of my screen.

Well...then maybe you're not a fan of Spotlight either. I actually use Bartender to hide its menubar icon for just this reason! :lol:

If I click the menu bar, it should be there; I'm using the mouse, I clicked there, that's where it should be. Same for clicking anything really, when I click somewhere, the result should be there, not halfway across the screen. Notably spotlight also breaks this, but the difference is there's nothing for me to do in spotlight with a mouse, so I never click it. 1Password does have things to do with the mouse, many things actually.

You're right in principle: it's weird to click up there and have the popup so far away! But in practice using the keyboard is even faster. I've been using ⌘ Space for Spoltight for years now as a result, and I love it. It was an adjustment at first, but try it with 1Password: ⌘ ⌥ \ gets you into mini quickly, where you can immediately start typing a search without your fingers having to move to the mouse/trackpad. Give it some time. I think you'll like it, especially as we continue to make keyboard navigation easier. On a big screen (or even a small one!) the time it saves you can really add up. And if there are things you're having trouble doing in 1Password mini with the keyboard, please let us know so we can improve it. Cheers! :)

AGAlumB

Before I could click on the browser extension and the pop out would be directly attached under it for me to select my login or a password to generate. Now the pop out is separated and showing up closer to the middle of my screen (I'm using a large 2560 x 1440 screen) which means I now have to move my mouse much further to click anything.

@jsugarstuff: Definitely check out my earlier reply to mlebarron. ⌘ ⌥ \ gives you easy access to a focused 1Password mini at any time, and this can really increase your efficiency on a large screen since you don't have to move the mouse at all.

The new mini is also much busier. Before I could directly see the information I wanted cleanly... Logins showing first, then the options to use password generator or list my credit cards. Now everything is showing, including my long list of credit cards every time I use mini, which I don't need to, nor want to see.

That's fair. There's a lot of information there, because we want everyone to have what they need right at their fingertips — literally, in the case of keyboard navigation! But perhaps we can deemphasize some of it to make the focus clearer. We just want to make sure that you can also see clearly what you're looking for.

I'm a bit confused about the reference to credit cards though, as those will show up under the list of logins for the current page, or in the search results if you've typed something in. Let me know!

If I wanted the functions of the full app, I'd open the full app (which is as easy as pressing the hotkey for Spotlight and typing 1p). [...] A solution may be to create customization options so people can customize their view if they don't like the busy default view or floating pop out.

I'm with you on preferring to use the main 1Password app for more complex stuff, and I even use Spotlight to open it too! But there are two things that are important: 1) not everyone uses 1Password the way we do, and many people use mini exclusively; and 2) a lot of this is just habit: I felt the same way at first, because I was used to doing more with the mouse and the main app out of necessity. But after using the new 1Password mini for a while (it's only been a day, so give it some time!) I find myself using the main window less and less. Often I just want to make a quick edit — a note in a login, for example, or saving a additional URL — and I can do that in mini now. These days I really only open the main window when I am going through and organizing things. I'm interested to hear what you think in the coming weeks and months. :)

AGAlumB

Like what I see so far - except … Don't like that when I'm on a website, I used to be able to ⌘\ and it would activate automatically (on most sites), but now I have to press enter to activate (pretty much consistently so far).

@Narius:Can you give me some examples, including the URLs involved? This is either going to be a bug you're running into or (more likely) you just have multiple logins matching the URL you're visiting, in which case 1Password has to prompt you to select one; it cannot known which you want to fill. Let me know what you find!

AGAlumB

The pop out is no longer attached to the icon,

@Vitorino: You can move it to the location you want and it will remember the position. Definitely give it a try! Or, better yet, keep in mind that it doesn't matter where 1Password is; you can always use ⌘ ⌥ \ to open mini, and it will be focused so you can start typing to search for something — and select what you want with the arrow keys. Much quicker.

and is not longer MINI is huge with the left bar!!! Why!!! The old design was completely right, why the change!!! Is a step backwards.

It may be that it was a good fit for you, or that you were simply accustomed to it, but we wanted to make mini more powerful because many people only use 1Password that way. We'll continue to refine the design though, so the feedback is greatly appreciated! :)

AGAlumB

I'd also like to add that I do not like the size of a mini – it's way too big. Think about it: on a 13-inch MacBook Pro in Safari, it's occupying what feels like almost a quarter of the "useable" screen. By "useable", I'm defining this as the entire screen minus the static menu bar on macOS, and the tabs and toolbar of Safari. That's very inconvenient and blocks much of what I need to see in most login windows unless I move the mini window around.

@tiantai: I think someone else on the team specifically said "25%" too. It's definitely something we'll continue to evaluate. Thanks for your feedback on this! :)

ref: apple-1299

AGAlumB

The new mini window is far much to large
not necessary for me
include an option to have reduce size or large to let us decide which one is proper for our us

@Gilles9: We're hearing similar things from both customers and team members using 13" and smaller displays. Thanks for letting us know! We'll see what we can do to make it a bit more space-efficient. :)

ref: apple-1299

verdi1987

Yes, the size is tolerable on my 27-inch iMac but less so on my 15-inch MBP.

AGAlumB

A radical move, this new "mini" view.

@Kobes:

Sorry, couldn't resist! :pirate:

I must say, I was shocked as well. But also seriously want to give it a shot. I have already seen a couple of improved uses here and going back will make that harder. [...] By the way, I am not saying that everything is perfect on this 'mini' update, but in general I like the direction taken.

Thanks for coming with us on this journey! I was a bit surpassed too at first, but a LOVE being able to edit right in mini. Often that's all I want to do quickly, and it seems like overkill to open the main 1Password window. I think it'll grow on you, but we're also anxious to hear if you have any suggestions on how we can make it better. :)

thanks for the pointer to the feature. I was not aware. Unfortunately, though, for me it does not work. When I click the move item to trash button, nothing happens. I guess that is a bug, so hopefully that will also come across in this passionate thread about the new 'mini'. :)

Hmm. I'm able to use the Move to Trash button in mini, but it opens the main 1Password window to confirm. So it's more of a shortcut than allowing you to do it right from mini. Can you tell me about your setup? What macOS and vault type is involved — e.g. 1Password.com, OPVault?

+1 on the suggestion by @TonyHall for making the watchtower banner collapsible. If we can do that on an item-per-item basis from within 'mini', then it does not need another 'setting' of sorts (as @Lars's comment seems to suggest), which would lead to a terrible trade off (never see important warnings because you want to hide some).

Thanks for your feedback on this! I'm not sure what the best solution will be, but it's something we'll look into. :)

ref: apple-1296

AGAlumB

@Lars with all due respect, "over preferencing" is only an issue if the defaults are something most users need to change. Most users don't even go into the preferences. Visible toggles: Yes. Preferences: No. The more accurate reason is that additional preferences cause additional development work.

@jfelchner: As sort of a moderate position, it seems to me that the functionality already existing makes adding a preference not much work at all. It's more a matter of design: finding an intuitive place and way of presenting it. But that brings us to the human element, and that's always the wildcard. If I had a dollar for every person I talked to who'd changed some setting, forgotten, and got confused down the road as a result, I'd be on vacation right now! :lol: But in all seriousness, many people really just go and try different settings to see what they do, and often there is no immediately obvious effect. So while that increases support costs and time, the greater concern is that no matter how good our support is, users are happiest and best served when they do not have to contact support in the first place. After all, no one does so because they want to, but because they have a problem, a question, or are flat-out confused about something. Less options means less of all of those, because less code = less bugs, more intuitive means fewer questions, and less complex options for the user results in less confusion. It's good job security for us when people need our help to a point, but if our customers are more and more frustrated because using 1Password — an app that's supposed to make security more convenient — eats up more of their time trying to figure things out themselves and contact us when they can't, they'll become unhappy and stop being customers altogether. I I wouldn't blame them! :dizzy:

Allowing the banners to be collapsable by default so that you don't get noise when you don't want it, or a jarring transition when going from one non-bannered app to another bannered one is a perfectly reasonable request.

I don't think anyone is saying it isn't. But I think we should 1) give it much more than a day and 2) consider the feedback of more 1Password users than just the good folks here who have opted into a beta.

I disagree that security notices are "noise", but I do agree that they probably take up much needed space in mini, and that it would be nice to be able to dismiss them in cases where they are not actionable.

ref: apple-1296, apple-1297

This is made more acceptable by the fact that the banners are not always actionable:
On many logins an HTTPS URL is not available
On many logins (especially in shared vaults), setting up 2FA is not a single person's choice
On some logins (such as for logins storing PINs) the password is always going to be "weak"
So you're showing noise to the user that they can't do anything about. This is not great UI design.

Good points! It's worth noting that you can disable the 2FA warning by adding a 2FA tag. Thanks for the feedback. :)

AGAlumB

I like the direction of the new design, mostly that the credit cards and identities are always visible and you don't have to click to see more than 5 items. I would appreciate greater contrast than what's currently present with the thin black font on a dark-ish gray background (especially with the light gray font of the url) when using the light theme. Same with the dark theme actually, be nice if the font was thicker/bolder. Oh and I also like that the transparency is gone!

@andmade: Thanks for the feedback — affirmative and critical! Glad you're liking the new 1Password mini, and we'll continue to make it even better over time. :)

AGAlumB

Just had a little play with the new Mini and I love it! Line spacing is far more compact and the size of the box just accommodates all the categories without any scrolling. I'll be using this far more than the main 1Password I think! Open and fill is far more easy to select and viewing the site information seems easier to read too, although I think that's maybe my imagination. Anyway, one thumbs up from me.

@rwakeford: It was a bit of an adjustment for my fingers since I was used to the old one, but I'm finding that I can do a lot more — and we'll keep improving it so that we don't have to give up the benefits to make it even more usable. Cheers! :)

AGAlumB

I had a quick play (I'm not a designer, so may be demonstrating my ignorance) but by reducing the icon size and tweaking the positioning of the various elements you can display a little more useful information.

@TonyHall: I think there's probably something we can do, even within the constraints of the platform. Thanks for the suggestions! :)

I've also reduced the Watchtower banner to a status bar (it irritates me that this large and distracting warning will permanently persist, unscrollable, even tho' it's beyond my control to fix :) ). As an addition to the persistent Watchtower 'Unsecured Website' warning... There's already a preference setting to turn off 2FA warnings (which can also alternatively be hidden by tagging items as "2FA"); so two ways to avoid undesired 2FA warnings, but no way to exclude these unsecured websites banners. To be clear, I'm grateful that these warnings exist in the main app, I just feel they are overkill in 1P midi. Warn me once but allow me to make the decision to not be bothered by the persistent banners. I can always review the status of the numerous unsecured websites through the excellent Watchtower in the main app. Many thanks.

Likewise, thank you for your thoughtful feedback on this! I tend to agree with you. We've got some issues filed, and while I'm not certain what will be the best approach, those are great examples of the challenges here. Cheers! :)

ref: apple-1296, apple-1297

AGAlumB

For me, ⌘\ opens 1P Mini in any app, not just the browser, but that's supposed to be what ⌘⌥\ is for…

@JBB, @TonyHall: I know it's a bit of a change (and this was especially perplexing to folks before we introduced the new 1Password mini, where it matters!), but definitely check out Kyle's post here...

While it isn't possible to integrate with apps other than browsers (which offer extension APIs for this purpose), it's incredibly handy to be able to quickly bring up login credentials for an app when you need them. :sunglasses:

petermarcos

My 2 cents worth, I like the ability to resize "mini" although it also appears to be a little bloated, no scroll bar (invisible) however it does scroll. App is lightning fast and it will (finally) launch the browser and log in. I like the "new Watchtower" categories, it would be nice to be able to reorganize them, as stated above"Inactive 2FA" is a little annoying, although it can be "tagged", these are minor issues, lest we forget what this app does for us. A secure environment to house our passwords and logins. Great work AgileBits Team.

jsugarstuff

I'm a bit confused about the reference to credit cards though, as those will show up under the list of logins for the current page, or in the search results if you've typed something in. Let me know!

@brenty Yes, the credit cards are ALL listed in the right column after the list of logins every time I use mini in the browser. Since there's no way to hide it (say by collapsing the credit card list by default and only expanding it if I actually need to use a credit card, which is probably around < 3% of the time), it adds a lot of clutter to UI. I also don't like the idea of anyone near me being able to see my list of credit cards every time I need to fill a login.

As for the keyboard shortcut, it's not always consistence. For example, the shortcut doesn't open mini when I'm on this forum page, oddly enough.

verdi1987

Maybe you could only show favorited credit cards by default in mini and have a way to expand all cards if needed.

At a minimum please consider moving Identities above credit cards or allow us to set the order.