Feedback on the new 1Password mini
Comments
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@brenty I have used it two days straight! The big difference is the amount of clicks! And no I don’t consider the pull down menu broken. It was easy and quick. Click, hover, & click and you were done. Not the new way, click, click, click, & click. 3 or 4 click is slower than 2 clicks. That’s my issue and that’s it slow!
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I agree with @lonestarrider. The new mini may be faster in performance, but in actual use it takes longer to accomplish what you need it to.
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@lonestarrider: Maybe you're just better at adjusting than I am, but it takes me a lot longer than two days for something like that. I'm trying to learn a new input method right now and while that's certainly more complex than adjusting to the new 1Password mini, it's similarly going to take me much, much longer. Also, I always found the hovering in the old mini tedious, and I know we got a lot of similar feedback from customers on that. So ultimately we can't please everyone. But we'll see if we can improve it for your workflow too. :)
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@verdi1987: That's fair, especially depending on the use case. We're getting a lot of good feedback both from mouse and keyboard users, so we'll be incorporating that into future updates. Thank you! :)
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I'd give the keyboard navigation a shot for people concerned about speed of navigation. You have to type your master password anyway, might as well keep your fingers on the keys.
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The new 1PW Mini requires more clicks and you have to drill down to get to information that was previously available. Not to mention it's not mini any more... How do we restore / bring back the older functionality?
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I'd give the keyboard navigation a shot for people concerned about speed of navigation. You have to type your master password anyway, might as well keep your fingers on the keys.
@CamJN: I hadn't though of it that way, but I guess that is part of the reason I gravitate toward the keyboard. Thanks for the perspective! :)
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I'm sorry to say I'm in the group that feels the new Mini is a step back. I'm certain a lot of hard work was put into it, and I'm glad AgileBits acknowledges they knew it would cause some ruckus when released. However, I feel like the "mini" aspect was forgotten and now it's both larger in screen real estate, functionality, and annoyance. The small, unobtrusive dropdown menu in the browser was fast, easy, and it seems like we've thrown away all that muscle memory for no real benefit.
Having worked on Mozilla and Firefox for a long time, I know that these types of changes come from a good place, but I also know that developers (and especially UI/UX developers) can be a bit blind when understanding the economics of change. Raymond Chen at MS describes their system of the 100 point deficit. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn167709.aspx?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396 "Every so often, a component of the UI will get a major overhaul. When that happens, every other feature starts out at -100 points—even features that already existed in the old version." This is an excellent rule, because it take into account user inertia (the installed base, muscle memory) and opportunity costs. "Yes, we COULD theoretically make Mini better by doing XYZ, but what do we give up?" Yes, MS screws up, someone obviously felt the Start Screen overcame that deficit when moving away from the Start Menu, but they realized that was bad and have moved back somewhat.
I feel like the new Mini is the new Start Screen. It may be objectively better, but it's such a radical departure that the question should be, "is it better ENOUGH to justify this change?" I think the answer is no. The browser plugin probably accounts for 90% of the user interaction with the app. As such, it REALLY needs to be treated carefully. Rather than starting over, iterative improvement should have been the path. Honestly, the biggest flaws are that it's no longer attached to the browser window (HUGE UI flaw, seriously, talk about mode switching, the user suddenly feels they're in a whole different app!) and that it totally ignores Fitt's Law.
Please bring back the old UI as an option. Whatever added functionality is in the new Mini is offset by the loss of ease of use.
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@greyhodge worded our concerns very well
Everyone here loves 1Password and the support we get from Agilebits. It is one of the best password managers that exists. But this new change was a swing and a miss unfortunately. The new mini browser does perform incrementally better (not that performance was an issue before), but the usability has taken a huge step backwards with the new size and non-docking behavior.
As it was stated, it's HUGE and greyhodge says it perfectly, '...the "mini" aspect was forgotten'. Look at the comparison. One is the native 1Password screen resized as small as possible and the other is the mini browser resized as small as possible. It's a smaller 1Password browser, sure, but by no means is it mini. Not to mention all that extra space it now uses offers very little to no benefit.
And now that it's no longer docking:
1.) if you resize or move your browser window, whatever position the mini screen is at will most likely no longer be ideal and have to be repositioned2.) I don't even know what would happen if I had multiple browser windows open and opened up the 1Password mini browser. How can you tell which window it's applying the login to other than by knowing which window it's opened it up in? Usually I use tabs and single window, but sometimes I'll have separate windows (and even separate browsers running) at once. Now that it's a separate free floating window and no longer appended to the window it's opened in, it'd be easy to lose track of what window it's applying to.
3.) If you're using a very large screen and/or multiple monitors, it makes the above issues even more prominent
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The new “mini” is definitely a screen real estate hog. Especially with the non-resizable sidebar on 12 - 13 inch screens. But I’m absolutely baffled about this “it takes more clicks” argument against the new mini. It remembers the last selected sidebar item. So if you just leave Suggested Items selected then every time you invoke the mini you just click the login you need. Two clicks tops. Just like it was before.
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Welcome to the forum, @greyhodge! Thanks for taking the time to share your comments about the new mini in 1Password 7 for Mac. We are definitely looking to iterate on feedback we've received from the user community as well as our own thoughts about it as time goes on and we spend more time with it. I think part of the issue you raise is one of screen real-estate. If you're on a 27" 5K iMac - as I am while writing this reply - the size of the new mini doesn't feel nearly as overwhelmingly larger than the old as it does if you're typing on a 13" MacBook Air. It's definitely something to take into account, and we're looking at ways we can retain the additional functionality of the new mini while making it a better citizen on smaller screens.
Some of what you're referring to with respect to muscle memory and the like, I find less compelling: people adjust to new workflows in new software (or to existing software) every day, not to mention other new aspects of life. "We've always done it this way" isn't the right place to start from when considering what changes or improvements might be made. While we've got a special place in our history and our hearts for the users who've been with us for years, we're also mindful of the fact that despite what it can seem like when one works here every day, most of the world still does not yet use a password manager -- which means most of the people finding their way to us these days have no preconceived or historical notions of how one "should" behave. Many of these newer users have no interest whatsoever in using the main window of 1Password except to get started and set up; their entire experience revolves around the mini. Much of the new design was driven by feedback we received that the existing mini in 1Password 6 didn't allow users to do enough, but instead required them to open the main app.
If you've been reading the threads about the behavior of the new mini vs the old, you'll already be aware that it's untethered to the top of the screen under the browser toolbar because 1Password can now be used to fill directly into non-browser applications as well (try it with iTunes, for example), but you'll also be aware that you can drag the mini window to any location on the screen and it will reappear in the same location the next time you invoke it with either the browser button or keyboard commands.
Thanks again, sincerely, for taking the time to create a forum account here and share your thoughts with us. We fell very lucky to have one of the more engaged and passionate communities of users in all of software-land, and we don't take it for granted. Many of the features you see in 1Password came at least in part from suggestions from the user community, and as a company that's never taken a dime of venture capital money, we don't forget for whom we work. :)
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@timbits - I can tell you pretty definitively that's unlikely to happen, if you mean simply "swapping" the new mini out in favor of the old one. We certainly plan to iterate on the new design and work - as we always have with other aspects of 1Password - to make it better fit the needs of our user base, but I'd be remiss if I didn't remind all of us that "our user base" is a very broad and diverse group of people who sometimes want our design choices to go in completely different directions from one another, which is the main reason why we always appreciate feedback from users but don't always pursue every idea.
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@OAW - we hear you on the screen real-estate issue, for sure. Most of us work from our homes where we have either larger Macs (like the 27" 5K iMac I'm working on now) or external monitors for our laptops...but when we go on the road, we experience it as laptop users ourselves. The challenge for us is to retain the increased functionality of the new mini while seeing what we can do for those on smaller screens.
But yeah, "suggested items" is a killer feature: and it works in apps now, too. :)
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@Lars FWIW, I AM actually on a 5k iMac. Improving the ability of Mini to better interact with other apps is great, but removing the standard UI from the browser plugin was a mistake. And you may discount the "muscle memory " argument, but while I have great respect for the Agile Bits team, that just proves to me that there is flawed thinking in the I development process. You're 100% right in that "this is how it's always been" isn't a justification in itself, "It's 'better'" isn't a reason to change. There need to be strong arguments with solid data to justify a change to a UI, especially one so radical. What users are accustomed to IS a good argument against change unless the argument for change is FAR BETTER, hence the -100 point deficit to start with. Fitts law is real. To ignore it invites Murphy's law.
Also, while yes, you can't just "swap out" the UIs, you certainly could have created a branched version of the browser plugin to retain the dropdown.
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...it's untethered to the top of the screen under the browser toolbar because 1Password can now be used to fill directly into non-browser applications as well (try it with iTunes, for example)…
Over 99% of a user’s password-filling is done in the browser. I don’t have many apps where a login a required, and of those that do have logins, I am not prompted to authenticate 50 times a day.
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you may discount the "muscle memory " argument...
I don't discount it - and I'm sorry if it seemed I do. In fact, I definitely believe that for many existing users, this will indeed be an adjustment. In fact, I don't discount any of your arguments; they're well-reasoned and clear. I think we may just have different ideas about how strong the argument for change is in the new mini compared to the old, taking into account all of the factors. You're new to this forum, so I have no idea how long you may have been a member of the larger community or even a reader of our blog/forum/newsletter, but if you've been around for a while in lurker mode, you'll know that we do indeed take the time to listen to users' feedback. We don't always make the changes they hope for, in part because with a user base the size of ours (not Microsoft-level, but not tiny any longer either), any choices we make (including the choice to do nothing) will displease some users and please others. And for many issues, we've got some users recommending we adopt literally the diametrically opposed position to what other users would like to see us pursue. I'm not trying to solicit pity for our plight -- because we genuinely appreciate and benefit from every bit of constructive user feedback. I'm merely saying that a) if we don't adopt your suggestions, it doesn't mean we weren't listening and b) we may indeed wind up with a different view/decision than what you'd have done. And most importantly, I suppose, c) we're truly thankful that you took the time to share a little of your own perspective and passion for 1Password with us. :)
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@verdi1987 - you can move the mini window back up to the top of the browser window, just underneath the toolbar, if you like. It will remember its position the next time you invoke it.
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@Lars I moved from LastPass to 1Password in 2014, and have mostly lurked, but I've been around for a while. As I said, I have great respect for you guys, I changed from the bought license to the subscription because it made syncing easier, and I feel better knowing you folks have a steady revenue stream because I love the product and the company. I'm well aware no company can make all changes users want. I know what software development is like, I've been in IT for 25years and done a lot of development management. :) I just disagree strongly with this decision. Absolutely nothing person to anyone at 1Pass. I'm not leaving the product over this, it's too good. :)
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@greyhodge :) :+1:
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Thanks for the advice. :)
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I'm not sure what you're expecting. If and when we have something to share, it will be in the app. :)
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@HRD - we're not "pushing back," we're doing what we always do with feature requests or even bug fixes: not pre-announcing dates certain when (or if) they'll be released. We appreciate your input on this, but it's a rare event when we'll say flat-out that we aren't going to do something or that something else is definitely happening. I'd take it as a good sign that we're not saying any such thing about refining the mini, but beyond that, we don't have anything to share with you at this time.
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