MAS Update Speed (& also) Lack of Info For Existing User Base

Ind3XInd3X Junior Member
edited September 2011 in 1Password 3 – 6 for Mac
Hello

I've just learnt of the MAS version of 1P. I'm thinking about jumping on board while some form of discount is applied but would like to get an idea of the update speed of the MAS version first. With the non-MAS version an update / patched version can be pushed to the end user very quickly should a serious bug be discovered, for example. As far as I am aware, Apple requires developers to submit their app for review and approval before it becomes available to the end user, I am concerned this process will significantly slow down the process of getting fixes to users. How fast are MAS apps approved?

Also, have just read in another thread about a "deep discount" which was offered when the MAS version became available. I'm a little disappointed I did not receive an email notification of this, to my knowledge I have not opted out of any notifications from Agile. Was this news emailed to current users?

Thanks
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Comments

  • NikNik 1Password Alumni
    Ind3X wrote:

    As far as I am aware, Apple requires developers to submit their app for review and approval before it becomes available to the end user

    Yes, that's right.

    How fast are MAS apps approved?

    There is unfortunately no way for us to answer this, as there is no set timeframe. The approval can take days. We don't have any personal experience with this, yet, as 1Password 3.9 is our first MAS version.

    Also, have just read in another thread about a "deep discount" which was offered when the MAS version became available. I'm a little disappointed I did not receive an email notification of this, to my knowledge I have not opted out of any notifications from Agile. Was this news emailed to current users?

    No, it wasn't. I responded to you in the other thread:

    I'm really sorry about that. We wanted to send out a newsletter, but doing that usually generates hundreds of responses. We were drowning in e-mail since Lion's and Safari 5.1's release and didn't want to keep even more folks waiting even longer for a response from us. What we should have done is sent out a broadcast from a "no-reply" e-mail address. That's not something we've done before, but it's definitely something we'll keep in mind next time. On a brighter note, the sale is still in effect!
  • Ind3XInd3X Junior Member
    edited September 2011
    Thanks Nik. I saw your reply regarding the discount in the other thread. Based on what the OP had said I was under the impression i'd missed an even better discount than what is currently offered....

    dbingham wrote:

    I've been a LONG time user of 1Password and actually waited a while to jump on the MAS version because of all the negative reports floating around. Missed out on the short term deep discount because of it.



    With regards to the MAS app approval turnaround, on one occasion I have waited 2 weeks for a critical fix to become available on the store from another developer, this was due to Apple, not the dev. It kind of put me off of using the MAS for my most important apps (which 1P is!!).

    Will 1Password 4 for Mac be available from your own store or is this a full transition to the MAS? Albeit with ongoing support for the current 3.8
  • thightowerthightower T-Dog Agile's Mascot
    The last post I saw on the subject mentioned the team was strongly headed to the MAS only for version 4.0, but they also said the details were not set in stone at the moment. But that particular post was right after the MAS version came out.
  • Not set in stone? If there is a non MAS version of 1Password 4 i will be expecting a free licence.
  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    Not at all, Mangoes! I think you misunderstood: The current plan is to have 1Password 4 MAS-exclusive, but we could always decide to offer a non-MAS version as well. We simply don't plan on it at this time.

    Regardless, if you have already purchased 1Password 3.9 from the MAS, you will receive a free upgrade to 1Password 4 when it is released. I hope this clears things up for you. :)
  • What happens if you do decided to do a non MAS version, id be very upset since id rather have a non MAS version. Updates via MAS are just way too slow. 3.9 has had the same issues since release while the non is getting releases.
  • fisherblnfisherbln Junior Member
    Mangoes wrote:

    What happens if you do decided to do a non MAS version, id be very upset since id rather have a non MAS version. Updates via MAS are just way too slow. 3.9 has had the same issues since release while the non is getting releases.

    +10000. I have been a 1password user since version 1. I have windows licenses, mac licenses, even bought 1password iOS before you made it free and then paid the higher starting price for 1password pro for iOS (before you lowered the price over 50%). I love the MAS, but not for your app. The updates need to be too frequent. Not to mention, you've now raised the price on there to $49.99 and I'm not paying that as an "upgrade" price for an inferior distribution system. I'll use 3.8.x until it stops working if you don't come up with another solution. Hopefully someone else will make a usable competing product by then or you'll do one of your now (in)famous we changed our mind on our policies and/or price again.
  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member
    edited September 2011
    Hi folks,

    Just for clarity's sake:

    As Nik mentioned, the app is still on sale in the MAS for a very substantial discount, and as Brenty mentioned, we do not plan to continue distribution of future versions of 1Password from our store.

    Thanks!
    Ben
  • fisherblnfisherbln Junior Member
    edited September 2011
    bwoodruff wrote:

    Hi folks,

    Just for clarity's sake:

    As Nik mentioned, the app is still on sale in the MAS for a very substantial discount, and as Brenty mentioned, we do not plan to continue distribution of future versions of 1Password from our store.

    Thanks!
    Ben

    Maybe you should pay closer attention. It shows that it is currently $49.99 on the MAS. See here :http://itunes.apple....443987910?mt=12

    Assuming the price change was an accident, you should send an email to all your current license owners unless you plan on not giving them any "deal" on their next "upgrade".
  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member
    I apologize, the sale just ended. The price change is not an accident.

    I imagine we will have other sales in the future, but this one had been up for 3 weeks (21 days). I do not have details yet on what future promotions we might have, but keep an eye out for updates.
  • fisherblnfisherbln Junior Member
    bwoodruff wrote:

    I apologize, the sale just ended. The price change is not an accident.

    I imagine we will have other sales in the future, but this one had been up for 3 weeks (21 days). I do not have details yet on what future promotions we might have, but keep an eye out for updates.

    As everyone else has already stated, it would have been nice if you actually emailed your existing user base as you had done in the past. I imagine that nearly every one of your existing users is going to be pissed off they have to pay the full price rather than an upgrade price.
  • Ind3XInd3X Junior Member
    edited September 2011
    Well this is effing great! Just came home from work and looked at the replies and have learnt that the 21 day sale has ended. Not only did I not get informed by Agile about the offer in the first instance, I now have to pay an upgrade price which is nearly double what I originally paid for the a full version a couple of years ago. AND, to top THAT off, I came asking questions yesterday and was told that the discount is still available, but the people in the know FAILED to mention that I only had a few hours left to get the price when you knew that the 21 day sale was due to end.

    WTF? WHY ARE YOU NOT INFORMING YOUR CUSTOMERS?????

    I mentioned I was a little disappointed yesterday, today I am thoroughly pissed off!
  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    Actually, Ind3X, I didn't know it had ended until I saw it in the store myself last night. I personally bought it on day one. 20$? How could I pass that up? I wasn't going to just wait around and hope that it would go even lower. I hate to say it, but you knew it was on sale, waited until it went up 5$, still didn't buy it at that price...

    I hope we will do better in the future about notifying people when a sale starts, but I am not sure how even that would have helped you in this case, since you knew about it and still didn't buy it. Telling people when a sale is going to end really does kind of feel pushy, though ("Get it while you still can!" etc.) If you weren't ready to buy it at the introductory price, I am not sure we can go any lower than that. :(
  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited September 2011
    fisherbln wrote:

    As everyone else has already stated, it would have been nice if you actually emailed your existing user base as you had done in the past. I imagine that nearly every one of your existing users is going to be pissed off they have to pay the full price rather than an upgrade price.


    No one had to pay full price, fisherbln. :(

    Not you, not me, not anyone -- we all had a choice: Buy it or don't. While we could have done more to publicize the sale, we just don't do a lot of advertising and promotion. I know we tweeted and blogged, and I told my friends about it.

    I guess I see a sale as a good thing: I would have gladly paid more (and I have!), but I didn't have to in this case. I am not sure that keeping the price artificially low through the holidays would be sustainable. ;)

    At any rate, this is ostensibly a thread about the pace of 1Password MAS updates. Let's try to stay on topic. :)
  • Brenty, I agree wholeheartedly with your reply, although mine would have been slightly shorter (2 words) to someone who doesn't have the courtesy to state a point without using profanities - there are children watching, you know.

    On a wider point, throughout the past few difficult months all the support team have been incredibly professional in their replies and have responded to insulting (= immature) posts with equanimity. Much appreciated by the silent majority I suspect, thanks.
  • fisherblnfisherbln Junior Member
    brenty wrote:


    At any rate, this is ostensibly a thread about the pace of 1Password MAS updates. Let's try to stay on topic. :)

    Then I'll stay on topic. I won't buy the MAS version because the MAS update speed is way too slow. Your current version has serious bugs and only those on the non-MAS store version are receiving updates. Thank god I didn't find your post about it being on sale until it was over or I'd be frustrated with a broken product right now. I will not purchase an MAS version of your product, but would happily pay even more for a non-MAS version.
  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member
    Thanks for your input. :)
  • Ind3XInd3X Junior Member
    edited September 2011
    brenty wrote:

    Actually, Ind3X, I didn't know it had ended until I saw it in the store myself last night. I personally bought it on day one. 20$? How could I pass that up? I wasn't going to just wait around and hope that it would go even lower. I hate to say it, but you knew it was on sale, waited until it went up 5$, still didn't buy it at that price...

    I hope we will do better in the future about notifying people when a sale starts, but I am not sure how even that would have helped you in this case, since you knew about it and still didn't buy it. Telling people when a sale is going to end really does kind of feel pushy, though ("Get it while you still can!" etc.) If you weren't ready to buy it at the introductory price, I am not sure we can go any lower than that. :(

    How dare you STATE FACTUALLY what YOU ASSUME I have done? Are you serious?

    I did not know about the update AT ALL, let alone an offer!!! That is the whole point. I happened to find out that a MAS version existed as I was browsing the MAS, a few minutes before I opened this thread. I then had queries about the MAS version which brought me to these forums. I also asked if an email was sent out to notify users and was advised that it was not!

    With regards to your comment, "Telling people when a sale is going to end really does kind of feel pushy, though ("Get it while you still can!" etc.)"

    This is COMPLETE RUBBISH, letting people know when the sale is going to end (right from the start) allows them time to make an informed decision, ask questions etc, with the aim of them satisfying their queries within a set time frame, 21 days is certainly not a rush deal. Helps if you tell existing customers about it to begin with though.

    No doubt you run the promotion with some kind of heading such as, "for a limited time only" which is exactly a "Get it while you still can!" tactic, especially aimed at NEW users, no regard for long term users as you did not inform them that such deal existed!! I can't be sure though as (guess what), we were never emailed about the deal. Would be great if someone could confirm whether this was the case or not? Apologies if I am incorrect, but i'd wager that I am not.


    brenty wrote:

    No one had to pay full price, fisherbln. :(

    Not you, not me, not anyone -- we all had a choice: Buy it or don't. While we could have done more to publicize the sale, we just don't do a lot of advertising and promotion. I know we tweeted and blogged, and I told my friends about it.

    AGAIN, HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BUY IT AT A DISCOUNT IF YOU DON'T TELL EXISTING CUSTOMERS ABOUT IT!!??

    We're at version 3.8.x and you've not even informed current users (by email) that you plan on transitioning to the MAS for the next version. Seriously, don't you think that is kind of important????

    I should not have to look on Twitter, Facebook or whatever other social network YOU use for announcements, I do not have an account on any of those sites but i'm pretty sure TO GET an account on ANY of those site one thing is globally consistent, no matter where you sign up, you need an EMAIL address. Actually, do people not need an email address to purchase your products? Well, I have purchased before so you have mine!!!


    brenty wrote:

    At any rate, this is ostensibly a thread about the pace of 1Password MAS updates. Let's try to stay on topic. :)

    I opened the thread, and the subject regarding lack of information for existing customers was stated in the first post, by myself. The topic is VERY MUCH on point. I'll change the heading in a moment to make my secondary query about lack of information more prominent if it bothers you that much.
  • Ind3XInd3X Junior Member
    [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]*Changed thread topic from "MAS Update Speed" to "MAS Update Speed (& also) Lack of Info For Existing User Base"*[/font]
  • Agile, great work in upsetting all your customers. Even better work not listening to your customers.

    When is 3.9 going to get some fixes that the 3.8 has seen? 3.9 has issues that need to fixed yet you fix 3.8. Why the hell would people want to buy the MAS version with this extremely slow turn around.

    And for freaking sakes would of it had been so hard to send out an email.

    Worst customer service ever.
  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    Ind3X wrote:

    I did not know about the update AT ALL, let alone an offer!!! That is the whole point. I happened to find out that a MAS version existed as I was browsing the MAS, a few minutes before I opened this thread.

    Ind3X, in your original post you indicated that you had just found out about the MAS version of 1Password and the promotion; more than a day later you hadn't purchased it and then the sale ended. I am sorry if I misunderstood something, but that's what it sounded like to me from your posts. :(

    As I said, I wasn't aware that it was ending until seeing that it had in the MAS myself, so it wasn't possible to inform you ahead of time that it was ending. We will definitely have to try something different next time, but in this case we felt a blog post would allow those who chose to keep up with AgileBits news would be a good way to allow people to opt-in to such announcements. Obviously some people feel differently.

    Mangoes wrote:

    Agile, great work in upsetting all your customers. Even better work not listening to your customers.

    When is 3.9 going to get some fixes that the 3.8 has seen? 3.9 has issues that need to fixed yet you fix 3.8. Why the hell would people want to buy the MAS version with this extremely slow turn around.

    And for freaking sakes would of it had been so hard to send out an email.

    Worst customer service ever.

    I think this falls more under the category of sales and promotion. Mangoes, if we simply sent an email to everyone whose address we had -- regardless of whether or not they had chosen to receive newsletters from us -- this is, by definition, unsolicited. No matter which route we chose, someone would be upset. In this case, some folks wish we had emailed them. If we had emailed everyone, others would have been upset that we had done so at all or about the fact that it was to sell them something.

    This is certainly not something that has upset 'all' of our customers. Some people have no interest in the Mac App Store version at all, as the website version works just fine. 3.9 will receive an update, although it is impossible to pinpoint a date. There are a lot of fixes and features on the way. It is simply a different update model. 3.8 is getting incremental updates; whereas 3.9 will get larger bumps. In the end, they will be getting roughly the same amount of changes (I know this because of the work that goes into each), they are just pushed out differently.

    And besides, at this point a lot of the work that is done is on the extensions, which -- of course -- benefit users of both versions.
  • I love all the complaints about being off topic, how most of these threads get shut down.

    Really makes your passionate feedback feel valued, eh?


    brenty wrote:

    This is certainly not something that has upset 'all' of our customers.

    Of course not! Just look at these awesome reviews! Those are some happy customers right there.

    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/1password/id443987910?mt=12

    How long are you guys just going to gloss over all of these issues? What does it take to get it through your thick, stubborn skulls that the amount of formerly loyal customers who are now completely dismayed with your current direction and attitude is actually significant?
  • JermJerm Junior Member
    edited October 2011
    It is truly amazing to me how poorly 1Password's transition to the Mac App Store has been handled. I am another user who did not find out about the transition to the Mac App Store until the introductory pricing had expired. As an existing 3.8 user I am now faced with paying an exorbitant $50 upgrade fee if I want to move to version 3.9 (and later 4.0). A quick review of my inbox shows that I have received almost two dozen promotion emails from Agile over the years touting new products and additional features related 1Password. I simply don't understand why this major product transition was not communicated directly to your customers via the same method that several much less significant announcements were communicated.

    As an existing customer this situation has me extremely frustrated.
  • I am looking RIGHT NOW, at an app store product (not competition - an editing product) and right at the top of the description on the app details page it states that the current promotional price is only good through Oct. 31, 2011. It would have been much smarter for Agile to have been at least as transparent as this in communicating pricing decisions.
  • adsteradster Junior Member
    I have to echo most of the emotions on this thread. I'm an existing customer, have been since 1P version 2. I didn't see the 1Password for MAS until this past weekend when I went snooping into the MAS and starting reading up about it. Apparently it was offered up for $20 several weeks ago, but existing customers were never notified of this and unless they read your blog or forums, would have never known about it.

    I feel like this is a slap in the face to existing, PAYING customers. I understand that 4.0 will be MAS only, a lot of developers are moving to that (Pixelmator, anyone?), but give your existing customers time to upgrade. Do you know how many emails I get from Parallels informing me when they upgrade to a new version?
  • hmurchisonhmurchison Junior Member
    Agile could have managed the communication better but I also think that staying in the loop is
    something that we as individuals are responsible for. Computers are great communication tools
    as long as we're willing to extend a bit of effort.

    One site I use to good effect is www.macappdeals.com. I've got it set to tell me about the latest bundles and
    deals available on the Mac App Store. So about every day I get an email that tells me the deals of the day and if
    i'm interested I consider a purchase.

    There are other sites that do this as well like AppAdvice.com and appshopper.com. One of the things that Agile
    faces is running email campaigns. Too many emails and your unsubscribe numbers go up. There's always a
    healthy balance between informative and annoying.

    I'd love for all Apple Stores to offer a "watch list" where you can be notified when an app goes on sale. Who doesn't
    like a deal?
  • thightowerthightower T-Dog Agile's Mascot
    hmurchison wrote:
    www.macappdeals.com


    Thanks good site just setup a RSS feed
  • brentybrenty

    Team Member
    edited October 2011
    shinratdr wrote:

    I love all the complaints about being off topic, how most of these threads get shut down. Really makes your passionate feedback feel valued, eh?

    That seems unfair, considering I have just replied to you in a few of these threads. ;) Do we lock duplicates, merge posts, and close 20+ page long threads that devolve into everyone repeating themselves (us too!) ad nauseum until (before, hopefully) things just get out of hand? Absolutely, and we will continue to do so. I don't feel like there is any need for you or anyone else to rehash your position in multiple duplicate threads, and we feel the same way about any other discussions (feature requests, bug reports, etc.) and try to keep things tidy wherever possible.

    adster wrote:

    Do you know how many emails I get from Parallels informing me when they upgrade to a new version?

    hmurchison wrote:

    Agile could have managed the communication better

    I know. I am completely taking these statements out of context, but I think this sums up both sides of the argument. Personally, I am painfully aware of how much promotion Parallels does. They make awesome software, but between the countless emails in addition to the popups i get at least weekly within the app itself about the update I have already purchased and have been running since it was released makes me hypersensitive to the issue of sending out promotional emails.

    Going forward we need to learn to manage communication better, but we simply can't change the past. What's done is done. If and when we run another promotion, we will have to try to do a better job of informing people.
  • adsteradster Junior Member
    brenty wrote:

    I know. I am completely taking these statements out of context, but I think this sums up both sides of the argument. Personally, I am painfully aware of how much promotion Parallels does. They make awesome software, but between the countless emails in addition to the popups i get at least weekly within the app itself about the update I have already purchased and have been running since it was released makes me hypersensitive to the issue of sending out promotional emails.

    Going forward we need to learn to manage communication better, but we simply can't change the past. What's done is done. If and when we run another promotion, we will have to try to do a better job of informing people.


    Thank you, brenty, for responding. I intended to reference Parallels as an excuse for good communication (albeit excessive communication). The point is, I knew they had a new version and I knew it was on sale. They reminded me when the sale ended and that was that. (with 3452353 more emails thrown in just for good measure). I know you say "what's done is done" and you can't change the past, but here's what you can do: Drop the MAS price down to it's original sale price, $20. Send an email blast to your customers letting them know your plans (transition to the MAS, 4.0 with be MAS only, etc) and give a firm ending date to the sale, say Oct 15th. Then, send another email out right before the sale ended, and BAM - you're back in business and you "fixed" the past.

    Just an idea, coming from a huge 1Password fan.
  • khadkhad Social Choreographer

    Team Member
    Thanks for the suggestion, adster! We have a history of providing some pretty sweet deals around the time of a major upgrade, so while I can't promise anything, I would not be surprised to see a promotion around the release of 1Password 4. :-)
This discussion has been closed.