Why can we not have an explicit statement about 1Password being a subscription-only service?

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  • DaGreek211DaGreek211 Junior Member

    When you mention "Overwhelming Popularity of 1Password.com" that seems unfair. When subscriptions/membership was launch not long after the ability to buy a license was not easy to find. I remember seeing people on forms asking if it could be bought and how. So if you funnel all users into memberships and hide the one time license are you surprised if the vast majority "pick" membership?

    In 1Password 8 if we have a membership is there still an option to use local vaults?

    Also for future iOS is there an option to use iCloud vaults?

    For some things I only do local, for some I allow iCloud vaults.

    thank you

  • There are two separate issues here:
    1. Moving to a subscription pricing model
    2. Forcing people to use your service to store their passwords & private data (as opposed to iCloud/Dropbox/etc).

    I could be convinced to adopt the subscription if the price was reasonable. But I don't like being forced to use 1Password.com to store my data. 1Password is the master key to my life. Bank accounts, social security number, passport (including scanned passport PDF), all my passwords and codes to everything. So, given the stakes, I'd like you to respect that I want to have 2 layers of security for my data: one from Dropbox/iCloud, and then the encryption of my 1Password vault. Forcing everyone to use 1Password.com means it becomes an even bigger target for hackers. And if they get in, they get everything. All my data. Everything. This is not an acceptable risk.

    As we now know, it's a matter of when, not if a breach happens. If you get breached, I will be just another user to you, but you will have compromised the master key to my entire life. Bank accounts, passport, driver's license, social security number, secure notes, recovery keys, and so much more. There's an asymmetry there in terms of risk. You have to let me, the user, be in control of my data (please!).

    I want to have 1Password sync its encrypted vault to a destination of my choosing. That's non-negotiable for me. If you keep that, I will accept moving to the subscription model. I have been a customer since version 3. I have brought you many new users over the years. Please listen to your customers!

  • edited August 11

    There are two separate issues here:
    1. Moving to a subscription pricing model
    2. Forcing people to use 1Password.com as a cloud based service

    Although I don't like #1, I could be convinced to adopt it if the price was reasonable.

    But I don't like #2. I use 1Password for everything. Bank accounts, passport (incl PDF scan), driver’s license, social security number, recovery keys, and so much more.

    Forcing everyone to use 1Password.com means it becomes an even bigger target for hackers and/or government data requests. And if they get in, they get everything. All my data. Everything. This is not an acceptable risk.

    Another factor is government data requests. If all my data is with 1Password in your cloud, then a government can access all my stuff with a single data request. I feel comfortable with my current government in my current country, but may not always feel this way in the future.

    I want to have 1Password sync its encrypted vault to a destination of my choosing: I want to have 2 layers of security: one from Dropbox or iCloud, and then the encrypted 1Password vault. Considering we’re talking about the single secure vault for our entire digital life, you have to let us be in control of our own data (please).

  • drcongodrcongo Junior Member

    After at least a decade of giving you money, converting my entire family and company to 1Password users, I will never give you another cent. Every single decision AgileBits has made in the last 4 years or so has made 1Password worse, and now you expect people to subscribe to an Electron app? And not only that, doing it just as native OS level password management is becoming a viable alternative. I can't think of a single other software company with such disdain or outright malice toward its own users.

  • DomDom Junior Member

    This was predictable but it’s still disappointing. I’ve been using 1Password since 2008 and would’ve happily continued to pay for major app updates. I’m opposed to both the subscription model and the cloud focus, so I’ll be sticking with the versions I have until reliability becomes an issue.

    I happily pay for subscriptions to other apps that offer useful innovations each year, but I really only need my password manager to do syncing and search, which 1Password has done well for over a decade at this point. I’m sure other people are seeing a benefit from paying every month and using new features, but for me there’s no compelling reason to pay for anything beyond OS update support when it comes to a utility app.

    There is one area for cautious optimism - 1Password was the obvious go-to for a high quality Mac password manager and that’s probably stifled competition over the years. Now that 1Password are actively turning away a proportion of their user base hopefully we’ll start to see some higher quality alternatives popping up.

    There’s no need to respond to this as it’s clear why the decision has been made and where you’re coming from. And it’s not unreasonable. I don’t doubt that the approach you’re taking makes for a larger, more profitable company in the long run - but I do miss the world where indie devs were happy to do a small thing well, rather than taking funding and being compelled towards infinite growth.

  • Well, I guess this is goodbye to 1Password for me as well. I've been using it for the last 10 years, with the standalone version, but this change will just not do. I've always been impressed by how integrated 1Password has always been where I need it, but I'll have to move to something else, even if that makes usage more clumsy.

    As others here, I remember having to fight through your website on my last upgrades to get the option to buy the standalone version, so I too find it a bit disappointing that you would use that "97% of users are on subscriptions" statistic to push subscription more, when clearly it feels like you forced a lot of hands to get there.

    For me, it's not really a matter of having to pay a subscription (I'd gladly pay 35$ every year for 1password), but having to send all my passwords to a server somewhere. You can secure it however you want, put all the layers of encryption you want, hell will be freezing over before I send any of that secure data to any server.

    I've always been using 1Password with my iPhone by synchronizing it manually over my local network, and doing regular backups myself. It's enough for me. Maybe it's less secure than your servers, and I'm being completely irrational, but I trust having my data to myself. That's what's important to me. I'm sure you have plenty of nice features coming, but I don't need nor want them. I just want a password manager that stores my passwords securely, and I want to keep that data to myself. And it seems 1Password 8 is not that anymore.

    Reaching the end of the thread, I saw other people wondering if we could still use local vaults with 1Password 8. It gave me a bit of hope that it could be a way to go. But I had to look through the forum here, and it seems that won't be possible, and everything has to be uploaded to your servers. I appreciate you're trying to find a way with self-hosting (even saw a survey about that), but that's just overkill. I'll gladly come back if you ever restore local vaults, even if that's done with a lightweight version that doesn't have all the bells and whistles (and I would then expect it to be priced less than the full version). But I seriously doubt that will ever happen now.

    So, farewell it is...

  • It’s time to say goodbye to standalone licenses

    ...And that's how Agilebits lost my business. My account was up for renewal tomorrow.I just deleted it.

    I knew this was coming, and have had a Bitwarden install ready to go, so it is just an import/export and data cleanup.

    It is a sad day - I really liked 1pw - but storing my passwords on someone else's machine simply is not an option. I am clearly in the minority, and I wish your biz the best, but, seriously, NFW.

    Adios.

  • I have to echo others.

    I am fine with the subscription model. 1Password provides a valuable service.

    I am NOT fine with the removal of local vaults. The additional layer of security is valuable to me.

    The removal of local vaults will force me to move away from 1Password.

  • I think it's disingenuous to say most users prefer 1password.com when the continued existed of the standalone license was at best obfuscated while 1password.com itself was heavily promoted. Also, the reasons given for adopting a subscription only model sound like a circular argument that amounts to "What's best for us is best for our users". I suppose you have enough new customers now who don't understand (or care) how the product works to sacrifice the loyal customers who promoted your product through word of mouth for the last decade. Many of those loyal users came to you because of vaults, because of the ability to separate the data from the app (and 3rd party integrations) and because of a standalone license.

    It's been a good run anyway and I'm thankful for the good product over the years.

  • kevwilkevwil Junior Member

    I am very sad to hear that this is the direction AgileBits has chosen to follow. While I completely understand the financial motivation to go this direction, it will no longer work for me. I'm very sad because I need a new solution that a) works on MacOS, Windows, Android, and iPhone, b) supports both local vaults (for work, no 3rd-party cloud sync allowed) and shared vaults with family members. I have a feeling migrating 1200 logins won't be easy, either. Best of luck AgileBits!

  • Echoing many of the other comments here, I’m happy to pay a subscription fee for the software. But if I’m mandated to sync my vault via Agilebits’ servers instead of being able to control the vault file, I guess I’m out.

  • Recently with shock and disappointment, I got notice of the fact that 1Password 8 will drop local vaults and the vault sync feature. I have been a happy a user of 1Password on macOS and iOS devices for years. With an annual subscription I was happy to receive support, new features, regular updates. Repeatedly, I have recommended 1Password to friends and family and showed them how to set it up.

    In the following, I would like to outline my use case to provide insight why "leaving local vaults behind" is a showstopper.

    • As a technical consultant, I work for multiple client
    • For each client, I create a local vault to store secrets etc.
    • Tresorit (kind of more secure Dropbox) is my primary data sync service
    • Using the folder sync feature, all 1Password vaults on macOS are synced with Tresorit
    • Sync of vaults with Tresorit works great across multiple macOS devices and even with colleagues working for the same client
    • Selected vaults are synced to iOS devices using the WLAN sync
    • No vaults are synced with 1Password.com
    • Annual 1Password.com subscription

    In summary, the "local vault and sync" feature has been a great and smart way to separate concerns between the password manager app and the storage service. With the announced road map, 1Password is dropping this essential separation of concerns the hard way without providing an equivalent alternative.

    Migrating vaults to 1Password.com is not an option because this would violate the separation of concerns.

    What is really frustrating is the thought about the time and effort that a migration away from 1Password would take in case the road map will remain forcing users to 1Password.com only sync. Being now in a locked-in situation as a long-time paying subscriber, it feels unfair to drop an essential feature without providing an equivalent option.

    I really hope that the 1Password.com rethinks the road map. I have noticed the "Survey: Self-hosted 1Password kick-starter" to which I also responded. However, I really do not want to self-host 1Password. I simply want an app which is great a managing password but keeps itself out of the affair to store the encrypted database.

    Conclusions as of today:

    • Hope remains for 1Password product managers to return to sanity
    • Stay at 1Password 7 on macOS as long as possible
    • Write a task to research for alternative solutions and migration paths
    • Cancel 1Password subscription for the time being
  • This makes me sad. :'( I've been a long time 1Password user and champion, but with this I guess it's time for me to move on.

    I'd be fine paying a subscription fee to use the standalone one, but I'm not interested in storing my data on someone else's infrastructure.

    Ciao AgileBits - thanks for the great software!

  • Like many of the comments above, I've also been a long time user (since 2011 or so). While recurring monthly service fees are annoying I get why it makes sense here given the multitude of apps and have no issue with it given the price point + value it provides. I would happily switch to a monthly/yearly fee model and continue with 1Password if existing features were still supported.

    That said, I have no desire to use 1Password with 1password.com and store my data (encrypted or not) on someone else's infrastructure. For something as critical as a password manager, your infrastructure should be able to disappear tomorrow and I should be able to continue using your product. I get that a local copy of 1P will still work if the cloud disappears but I suspect there's no way to setup 1P on a new device for example if the cloud disappears.

    Local storage of vaults and/or iCloud sync works very well and is how I'd prefer to continue operating. If I can't put everything I need to fetch my passwords on a USB stick in a safe (today that is the 1P app + vault + recovery key) and retrieve it to use at a later date then the solution is fundamentally broken.

    This is really all folks are asking for here and would likely meet the needs of the few who are opting to instead move on from 1P.

  • The "local vault and sync" feature has been a great and smart way to separate concerns between the password manager app and the storage service. With the announced road map, 1Password is dropping this essential separation of concerns the hard way without providing an equivalent alternative.

    Migrating vaults to 1Password.com is not an option because this would violate the separation of concerns.

    What is really frustrating is the thought about the time and effort that a migration away from 1Password would take in case the road map will remain forcing users to 1Password.com only sync. Being now in a locked-in situation as a long-time paying subscriber, it feels unfair to drop an essential feature without providing an equivalent option.

  • Reading through all the comments written by loyal disappointed users is really sad :'(

  • It is very disappointing that you have removed a customer's ability to chose what is best for their circumstances, be it having control of their data and storing it where they would like, or having the ability to actually own the software rather than operating under a subscription model.

    I have been using 1password since at least 2014, and even though I have really enjoyed the product, I will no longer recommend it to others and it is doubt that I will follow on to a 1passowrd subscription, ultimately being forced to another password manager.

    Please bring back our ability to choose! It's unlikely you will care about the few vocal dissenters that will move to other platforms, but it would be great if you did. Thankfully you do provide some rational data export formats that can be used for migrating to other platforms Thank you for that!

  • clausclaus Junior Member

    I am not surprised that AgileBits does not listen to the users. I am also not surprised to think about transferring my data from 1Pwd to a new home.
    PS: Your marketing was focused on selling subscriptions and not in selling individual licences for e.g. 1Pwd7. So please do not say that most of your users preferred to buy a subscription. It was just not easy to find the option to buy a "lifetime" licence for 1Pwd7, very well hidden. So users had to buy a subscription.

  • edited August 11

    I've been a happy 1Password customer (app + subscription) for over a decade. I have gotten 1Password adopted at many employers and clients. I've generally been ok with the shift to subscriptions and embraced the new functionality that an online service allows for (e.g., teams and family vaults). I'm just a bit sad that you're switching to an electron app on the Mac given the history of the company. I get it; I too am in the software industry. But the move to electron has everything to do with benefits for your company and little to do with benefits for the customer user experience. At best you'll deliver a user experience that approximates a native Mac app. At worst, I'll have another Slack-type resource hog to deal with. It's kind of frustrating seeing the Apple Design Award being shown off in the comments if the core underpinnings for what led to that award will be gone in version 8 of the Mac app. It feels like a bait and switch where the product that won the award is going to be replaced by an inferior product to actual customers -- at least with respect to core user experience. I'll put my money where my mouth is. I'll pay a premium for a subscription that keeps the native Mac version of the app maintained and updated independently of the electron versions. I know other customers who feel the same way I do about electron may not agree with this premium, but it demonstrates how much I viscerally dislike using electron apps on the Mac.

  • zejctpozejctpo
    edited August 11

    As a long time member since Day 1, I also (along with so many others here, including a lot of my friends and family) will be moving away from 1Password once support is no longer provided for v7. We don’t mind a subscription, but no longer having stand-alone licences and being forced to the cloud is a deal breaker.

    It’s been a good journey but it’s now time to look for an alternative. Good luck

    This is a great dev team but I just feel saddened that those who helped make this product take off before Cloud became as big as it is today are sort of being disregarded now. Please reconsider the business model I can assure you that you will lose a very loyal consumer base

  • This is awful. We went through this when 1Password started moving toward subscription models at the time and users like myself who do NOT want our passwords stored in the cloud were forced to jump through hoops to keep paying for the software.

    I have 1Password licenses going back to 2009 and have consistently paid every upgrade and brought family and friends in to 1Password. At the time, I expressed extreme concerned, but was promised that 1Password would remain available locally to users who wanted it.

    Promise broken.

    Everything that made 1Password great and worth paying for is being undermined.

    You've gone from being a fantastic native Mac app to Electron.
    You've made it impossible to pay for upgrades and not be a subscriber.
    You've made it impossible to store our passwords locally and not use your cloud service.

    I've been a user and advocate for 1Password for over 12 years, and that just ended today. I will not pay for your subscription service, I will not continue using 1Password, and I will actively move myself and my entire family off of 1Password.

  • After almost exactly 10 years' use, goodbye 1Password.

    Stephen

  • This is a hard pill to swallow. I’ve used 1Password for probably the last 8+ years on work and personal devices. I’ve encouraged anyone who would listen to use it. Unfortunately, with this latest announcement, you’ve lost me as a customer. Announcing that you’re switching to an electron app and requiring that passwords be stored in the cloud smells to me like a decision heavily influenced by financial incentives, not security. Referencing your past work, which was excellent, only to announce a complete shift away from everything that lead to your previous success, just pours salt in the wound. And finally, it’s disingenuous to relate the quality of your subscription service with its adoption rate when you’ve made it nearly impossible over the past few years to do anything but accept a new direction that makes the most financial sense for your company. I don’t blame you for doing this - I imagine you’re under immense pressure to make money - but I won’t be a part of it. Bon voyage.

  • KompilerKompiler
    edited August 11

    Have been a user since 2012 and really unhappy with the recent decisions that have been made. I too am now out as I refuse to trust a 3rd party with my vault. Adding a subscription model is icing on the cake in the face.

    EDIT: forgot to add that moving to Electron is also a terrible idea.

  • @dteare I have been using 1Password with standalone vaults since 2012 for my personal passwords and info. I continued using my standalone vaults even after my employer began providing 1Password business subscriptions for our business-related passwords. I am most definitely in that small percentage of 1Password users who want local control over my personal info, and have no desire to store sensitive information - not just for myself but for family - in a cloud service - even if "the majority" of people have no issues with that. I get the revenue appeal of no longer selling standalone licenses, but it's super disappointing to lose access to standalone, local vaults - the cloud is not best for everyone. I appreciate the heads-up of this post so I can proceed carefully to prevent any updates to my local installation of 1Password for as long as possible.

  • I decided to create a community account just to comment on this. I've been very hesitant on adopting the subscription approach. And I get it, especially from a business perspective, I do. Saying that most customers wanted the subscription approach feels a bit like BS though. Finding the standalone license was really difficult, I don't think that the results would have been the same if the exposure to it had been equal to how you promoted the subscription model.

    It is truly frustrating that you're leaving the local vault sync feature behind. This comment describes the situation perfectly. The data that I use with your product is mine, and being forced to store it in the way that you choose is what's preventing me from switching. I'll use 1P7 until I can no longer do so on OSX, Android and iOS. Once that period is over I'll come back to see if you've changed your plans, and if not, then I'll look into a self-hosted solution instead where I'm in control of my data.

    You really do make a fantastic product, but your decisions alienate your most supportive users.

  • I am so tired of the warm words that tell me as a customer why something I don't want is better for me than what I already have.

    I bought my first 1Password version in 2008 and have been spending money on upgrades ever since. I use the program as I did on day one: to generate strong passwords, store them locally, and use them when needed. I don't use any other feature.

    Software vendors always talk about how "easy" their product is. Nevertheless, new business models are constantly being developed, I have to create online accounts that I don't need or want, adapt my workflows and once again I have to respond to changing terms and conditions.

    1Password is now a juggernaut that needs to be kept alive financially, through consistent revenue from subscriptions. Other than occasional security updates and adjustments to platform updates, I don't expect anything from 1Password. I don't need it.

    The monthly subscription would cost 3.15 EUR. I paid 39.99 EUR for 1Password 7. Now I would pay this amount annually (!). It's about money - more money - and it would be refreshing if someone would admit that.

  • edited August 11

    I am so tired of the warm words that tell me as a customer why something I don't want is better for me than what I already have.

    I bought my first 1Password version in 2008 and have been spending money on upgrades ever since. I use the program as I did on day one: to generate strong passwords, store them locally, and use them when needed. I don't use any other feature. I will not store my passwords online.

    Software vendors always talk about how "easy" their product is. Nevertheless, new business models are constantly being developed, I have to create online accounts that I don't need or want, and once again I have to respond to changing terms and conditions. In short, I waste time on things that don't move me forward.

    1Password is now a juggernaut that needs to be kept alive financially, through consistent revenue from subscriptions. Other than occasional security updates and adjustments to platform updates, I don't expect anything from 1Password. I don't need it.

    The monthly subscription would cost 3.15 EUR. I paid 39.99 EUR for 1Password 7. Now I would pay this amount annually (!). It's about money - more money - and it would be refreshing if someone would admit that.

  • clausclaus Junior Member

    @dteare : You wrote: "When over 95% of our users voted with their money for subscriptions we knew we had our marching orders."

    Sorry, but are you joking? The option to buy a "normal" licence was so well hidden, users hat only the option for a subscription.

    Have you never read the comments here or in many, many other IT-forums about subscriptions for apps? Many users "hate" the subscription model and would love choose the "normal" licence model. Why do you try to tell us the opposite thing?

  • astrostlastrostl
    edited August 11

    Over the last 3 years our customers made it perfectly clear to us that they saw the value of our membership plan as they picked subscribing over 30 times more often than those who purchased a license.

    Or perhaps they made it perfectly clear that the standalone license was extremely well-hidden by you on your web site? I've been a paying customer since 2008 and have actively evangelized the product to countless people, and in recent years have had to help them figure out how to buy the standalone version because it was so hard to locate.

    I subscribe to lots of things, and I would consider subscribing to 1Password too. The #1 thing that keeps me off of it is how completely dishonest 1Password's presentation and communication of subscriptions has always come across to me. If 1Password wants more money and thinks the product is worth it, please just say that. I think it would be so much better than saying things like, "There is just so much more that we can offer [with subscriptions]" as features are removed.

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