Why can we not have an explicit statement about 1Password being a subscription-only service?

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  • I won't repeat most of what others have already said several times, but this I need to say:

    Apparently I've "only" been using 1PW for 13 years (started pretty quickly after I transitioned to Mac), so I'm only been around since version 4 and thus a newbie compared to many of the previous commenters. I have to start by saying that from the business point of view I completely understand the rationale behind wanting to get more money, especially from the new customers to whom we old-timers have been raving about the app for years and years (one of the reasons being the original license policy).

    I probably could even accept the fact that standalone licenses are no more and that we now must pay to keep using the software (a switch that I think Jetbrains eventually handled sooo much better than this).

    What I can not accept is the fact that while nowadays we old-timers are completely outnumbered by new customers (and hence, $$$$$), now that you have gotten what you needed of us in early years (reputation, funding, continued support/feedback/etc), you will just toss us aside when it's more convenient for you to not care about our use cases and needs. If we are forced to pay you more, we expect to get more - not less (features).

    While I have to use your business license and shared cloud vaults for work and therefore can not stop using 1PW apps on my computer and mobile devices, I will move my personal and family shared "local" (Dropbox) vaults to a different platform.

    It was great while it lasted, and I hope all the best to Dave and others on personal level (you have earned it in the past), but I simply can't anymore recommend in good conscience a product from a company that betrays it's long time customers like this and even proceeds to gaslight them while defending their actions.

  • @PeterG_1P Y'know, I had a realization this morning- if 1P8 already has the capability to work totally offline, and has a fully-functional local database of all of the content, there's really no technical reason why a standalone vault mode wouldn't be a possibility, right? It wouldn't (necessarily) support syncing across devices, but from looking over these forum posts there do seem to be plenty of users who have offline use cases that would really benefit from that sort of mode...

  • Thank you for 1Password. I've been using this software and recommending it to friends and family for almost 10 years. Sadly, this has now come to an end.

    I specifically chose 1Password because it provided multiple syncing options and did not force me to store my passwords with the software manufacturer. Dropping local vaults and forcing me to use the 1Password.com cloud service is a deal breaker for me and I'll now be migrating elsewhere. Thanks again for the past 10 years.

  • Long time paid user here and, like others, I have recommended you countless times to friends and family.

    That has stopped now unfortunately with the artificial restriction being put on sync options. You've made me wince every time I launch the app :(. It's unbelievable how quickly you have burned a decade of goodwill to a cinder.

    I hope you will reconsider and make a strategic change of direction in version 8.5.

  • Felt like I needed to leave a comment here as well, since I just found out today that local vaults are planning to be dropped.
    This is one of the reasons I've continued to use 1Password, and I am signed up for the subscription. I understand that it was important to continue to fund this software that I use every day, and am happy to pay for it. Thank you!

    I have a few shared passwords on 1Password servers, but prefer to keep the primary local, so that access to the stores is with a different password than the vault itself, and stored separately from a company whose primary purpose is to store passwords.

    I would appreciate if you'd reconsider, and offer a way for me to continue to use a local vault.
    I've recommended 1Password to a lot of folks -- in part due to this feature.

    Thanks!

  • I have been using 1Password since version 2 and sadly at this rate I think my days are numbered when it comes to using 1Password. With this move, I am actually losing functionality and moving to subscription base although is fantastic for the software companies as a constant stream of revenue, from a user perspective it is not. I have lost tracked already at the number of software companies moving to subscription format and little by little all this subscription model will come back to haunt software companies since it has become an increase in frustration to the user community. Not ever user needs to have subscription. Even the current number of functionality outside of the subscription model for 1Password has value to a regular user using the software to store their password. Losing local vault is a deal breaker for many users. Unable to store the data where the user feels more comfortable while forcing the user to store such important crucial data with zero control is a deal breaker for many users. On my end I have multiple vaults, some local for specific set of data that I won't want nor need to be store outside my local vault and a vault which is store in iCloud which I feel perfectly comfortable with a set of data which is specific to my needs that I can access it across multiple devices. A bit of micromanagement perhaps but there are reasons for that. But at least I have the option to determine which data to toss over the fence for storage and which data I don't want to toss over the fence. With 1Password 8 no longer having those options, now I am having a software company dictate to me how to use the software and how to store my data with no options or stop using the software all together and look for other options. Sure, subscription allows not only a good stream of revenue and while it also allows for enhancements etc, when a number of users regardless of small or large really don't need all those bells and whistles and simple want their standalone non-subscription software for simple functionality for the software as it was intended vs having over blowed softwares with enhancement purely because of the subscription model and doesn't add value to the user, then trust is lost. I guess I'll be using 1Password version 7 until it becomes no longer an option and start evaluating other potential options. Extremely frustrating but it is what it is.

  • @kcastill man, I wading through all 5 pages of content, and your post seriously mischaracterizes the sentiments here. Just like 1Password can choose to charge however much they want, customers are free to give feedback about it and make their voices heard. I don't even know what you're defending, since you don't even like the update, perhaps a superior sense of cynicism that "gentlemen, this is how the world works." News flash, we fcking know, this is not a bunch of idiotic Marxists here. What you're doing is standing in a room full of sad customers protesting a land developer about to tore down their favorite local bistro, shouting "get over it." Let people grieve for f's sake, and honestly licking the boots of the land developer when you don't even have a stake in the business isn't something very becoming to do.

  • kcastillkcastill Junior Member

    @noveltycenters09

    customers are free to give feedback about it and make their voices heard.

    Of course, I'm not suggesting otherwise. I'm talking about people implying some nefarious emotional manipulation/deception here on the part of the company.

    You might think that's a mischaracterization, but I'm not only talking about this thread, I'm talking about sentiment across the forum here in the last week or so.

    Things to the effect of: "When 1p subs came out, you said there was a future for local vaults, but you_ lied_!" There was a future for local vaults, it played out...then circumstances changed! I think that interpreting "a future" as "forever in perpetuity" is an unreasonable stance for users—including myself—to hold.

    I'm not licking the boots of anyone by hoping that even disappointed customers (of any company/situation—not just this one) can be reasonable, even while still being upset.

    • Grieve, yes.
    • Ask a company to come out and flat say "we're making this change to improve the bottom line", an unreasonable expectation (when has a company in the history of EVER done that?!?!).
    • Further a conspiracy-level theory that this was always the secret plan, and 1p have just been engaging in a long con...ridiculous.

    The relationship between any company and any customer is bilateral. There's a difference between a company being actively dishonest, as if they knew where they were headed all along (if any of you work in companies that unwaveringly consistently focused, let me know—happy to try and get you a referral bonus by applying), and pivoting based on market forces. There are many posts presuming the latter is simply not possible. You might think it's bootlicking to expect a fair perspective from both sides of the bilateral relationship, but I think it's a measured way to evaluate the situation.

    Of course, others think that emotional lashing out is more productive and/or constructive "feedback"...I disagree.

    "gentlemen, this is how the world works." News flash, we fcking know

    Tell that to the people—not just men—who unironically post things like (paraphrasing) "I would respect you more if 1p came out and said this was a cash grab". Apparently, not everybody does know.

  • Just checked that I have been using 1Password for more than a decade, probably since 2017 or so... And I LOVE IT. I use it daily and cannot imagine working without it.

    BUT... no local vaults?

    A few years back it would be inconceivable to think of storing - of all things - your passwords and secrets in the cloud. It is still madness though, this didn't change. Anyone really valuing his privacy knows to use a local vault. As far as the new users (which outnumber us) goes, they are unfortunately a folk that usually cannot tell the difference between local and cloud. That's the new generation, posting their life to facebook or wherever and just giving away personal information. So these users cannot be the benchmark on privacy and security. I am deeply disappointed by this decision to drop local vaults and am looking around to switch platform. From a technical point of view, I think that support for local vaults is totally doable (also financially for agilebits - come on guys, your are successful). I would even indulge a subscription model, although I HATE IT. But removing local vault suport is crossing the line. Very sorry. Game over.

  • I am confused about the issue of local vaults. I have 1PW7 standalone and use Dropbox to sync my PW file on multiple devices. I guess that means my vault in stored on DropBox. If I used a local Vault, then it would not be sync'd on multiple devices, correct? However, 1PW7 does give the option of where to store my Vault for syncing. If I understand the PW8 issue, Agile is going to require users to use the Agile server to sync Vaults. Is that correct?

  • @MikeV99 Yes, 1Password is going to require that you use 1Password.com to sync vaults with 1Password8 and above.

    In many ways Dropbox/iCloud/Folder Sync are similar in that 1Password just writes the file then has the sync service handles all the syncing of the vault.

  • Sigh. I wasn't planning on reading through a whole discussion thread, but a comment on an ArsTechnica article on Apple adding iCloud Password support to Windows lead me to search out this thread.

    I'm one of those people like ThoughtfullyYours21, kettch, zcicala, akerl, thundersparrow, asm, cmonroe, toroidinductor, zejctpo, noto, blankspace, chongolcn2, twilight78, alex11_, StevenBedrick, GetSource, Julio Bouza, and gpsalttt who don't really want to put all of my password data in the cloud. (Hey, I started making a list of the folks that I agreed with, and it seemed to be a shame not to use the list..)

    I'm also not really a fan of subscriptions especially for mission critical items like 1Password, I have times when money is insanely tight, and if that is the moment where I have to re-up my annual subscription it'd suck to lose access to autofill and those features. That being said, I do understand it as necessary to keep 1Password coming and improving, so it's something that I would be willing to consider.

    I do take some pause in the Mac app transitioning to an Electron app and I've noted the concerns that fourthreen, dakent, and
    previouscustomer. I can see this as being a reasonable solution to getting 1Password 8 out the door, especially given that it is a code base break with 1Password 7 to unify the clients. The 1Password 8 development article was enlightening as to the transition involved, and as a Mac user I support leaving old cruft behind. That being said, if 1Password 8 for the Mac in electron is a non-performant hog, it'd be helpful if Agilebits committed to implementing a SwiftUI implementation once there is capacity to do so.

    I've read and more or less understood the security white paper, but I still think its a bad idea to centralize so much highly valuable information. History is littered with examples where engineers said, "oh there is no way that'll ever fail", only to be presented with a new way that something failed.

    I also appreciate @StevenBedrick and @PeterG_1P discussion illuminating what is happening on the backend.

    This all being said, I'm leaning toward just staying with my perpetually licensed 1Password 7 installation. I've been with 1Password since the 1Password 3 days, and I spent a significant amount of time stuck at 1Password 6 since my old Mac only supported OS X 10.11 - El Capitan. (Making the jump to Big Sir was dramatic!)

    I'll have to evaluate where things are once 1Password 7 doesn't run on whatever future Mac OS and this kinda makes me sad that I might be parting ways with 1Password after a long run, but I don't really see myself making the leap to 1Password.com, even though I briefly tried it out when I moved to 1Password 7, I decided to stick with a local vault and a perpetual license.

    Its been a good run, and maybe we won't part ways, but I'm not liking where I see 1Password going...

  • I have also been a 1Password user for more than 10 years. What you forgot in your great plan is that there are users who, on principle, will not take out a subscription for software, no matter how much it is discounted. In addition, there are users who, on principle, would NEVER put their data safes in the cloud. I belong to both of these categories. Back 10 years ago, there weren't any good alternatives to 1Password. But that has changed. 1Password, it was a nice time BUT unfortunately I have to go under these conditions.

  • @dteare Another longtime user here, frustrated with this update but not for the reasons you would expect.
    I have been using 1Password for many years, even participating in betas.

    The general deception that has occurred throughout this rollout has been quite offensive to your loyal fans (the ones who built your company, remember us?) From 1Password 7 I knew that the company was going towards subscription but no one wanted to confirm it. I remember a convo on these exact forums stating that perpetual licenses would always be available however subscriptions are the "better option". Even now it's hard to find info besides this thread on what exactly is happening. Had I known then what I know now I would have migrated away, and the team knew this so instead chose to string on consumers longer.

    When subscriptions were rolled out I didn't buy in not because I have anything against them but instead because they only allow 1Password.com accounts. I do not like the idea of a single point of failure on my sensitive data and preferred to keep my vault in sync through iCloud. I would be happy to pay the membership if this was still enabled. Hell you could even just allow fair upgrade pricing for legacy users in honour of their loyalty.

    I understand that subscriptions are good for the company (predictable accounting etc.) but every single time a product does this they always position it as "better for the consumer". This is simply false. Your stat that 97% chose subscription is only because perpetual licenses were tucked so far away from reach that they seemingly didn't exist. Except to your longtime users who unfortunately bear the brunt of this decision. The majority of us are more technically inclined so you cannot pull the wool over our eyes either. (Your twitter team thinks they can trick literal software developers who are users).

    Couple this with the decision to move to Electron (again marketed as better for the user when you know that it's literally to cut development costs) and there is nothing differentiating you guys from the competition anymore. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that 1Password accounts do make sense for business but as it's my own personal use I'll be saying goodbye. This is the second time I've been bitten by AgileBits (first was the discontinuation of Knox).

    In short, it's not the decision - it's the way it's been communicated to fans who your company would legit not exist without. AgileBits has turned into the friend who stops answering your calls after getting famous.

  • aComplainyGuy, Nailed it. Nailed the reasons I will NOT submit to a subscription. Besides, there is just NO WAY a subscription is or can be made as safe as a locally controlled vault. I continue to want to support AgileBits. In the past, I've said, I'll be glad to pay a lot more than 1PW7 cost. I've been a member since 1PW3.
    Why not a subscription for a Stand Alone License. Let me maintain everything as in the past, local vault, etc.

    Saddened by the loss of personal control of CHOICE.

  • Hopefully someone is listening to all of the comments on this thread especially local vault. No way I would be moving to new version and tossing my data to 1Password cloud solution losing functionality and unable to control where my data is being stored. The rest is a choice including subscription etc and even using Electron I guess. But unable to control where my data is stored and how I want it to be stored no way. So once version 7 goes away which I am sure it will happen then no more 1Password for me which will be a total shame after supporting the software for so long. :(

  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member

    Hello Julio,

    We're definitely listening and reading all the feedback you and others are sharing. Regarding local vaults specifically, I don't have much more to add than what I wrote in this mini-essay-as-a-comment in the the What is the future of local/standalone vaults? thread. If you haven't already, please give that a read and please do fill out the survey as well so we can better gauge the demand for self hosting of our service.

    ++dave;
    1Password Founder

  • Good Morning Dave,

    Yes I read that but still, is functionality being lost and causing users to toss crucial data across the fence to 1Password.com. Even current state I use iCloud to store and sync my data except for certain data which are stored locally on purpose. At the end of the day, users are losing flexibility and functionality while AgileBits now is dictating where all my data is stored. Like I said and others have, 1Password version 7 will be leveraged until you all determined to no longer supported which clearly the future seems to lead to that at some point. Once that is reached, many users will bail out from using 1Password subscription or not or Electron or not.

  • One thing AgileBits could do is release 1Password 7 along with the classic extension as open source under GPL to the public. Ben already said that it is not a bad idea and other components could be made available in the future back in 2017.

    With my very limited understanding of coding, I assume that there is enough difference in code as 1Password 8 is build around 1Password.com and a different local file strucutre than 1Password' s.opvault format (Guess on the last part here). How 1Password operates is already laid open in the Security White Paper. The integration for the 1Password.com sync service could be removed so there is no tie in. The 2-step extension verification could be removed, too (which makes it arguably less secure), made configurable so it can be self-hosted (or is changed to a different OTP variation by the open source community).

    Therefore, standalone vaults that are local or syncable via WLAN or third-party sync service could be available for those who want to continue to use the familiar Password Manager while the open source community maintains it.

    Depending on code modularity this could be even easier than the possible option of self-hosting the sync service based upon the 1Password.com /.ca / .eu backend. Or it could be alongside so there is a lot of flexibililty of how much a user wants to be integrated and use the comfort, security and yet-to-come features of 1Password.com that such a tight knit integration allows. Even with a "in-between solution via the self-hosted solution (Kickstart-Survey from 1Pasword).

    This could be even with a different name to avoid confusion with the 1Password brand and some time after the official release of 1Password 8.

    Sandboxie Plus is an excellent example here in my opinion. Sandboxie started in 2004, developed and maintained by Ronen Tzur. Invincea bought it in 2013, Sophos aquired Invincea in 2017 and released the code under GPL 3.0-or-later in the beginning of 2020 after announcing the plan mid-2019 when making it freeware.

  • I've been using 1Password for many years, and while I'd prefer to not have to move to a subscription model I could live with it if needed. However, the change that will unfortunately see me move away from 1Password is not being able to manage my vault in other synching platforms e.g. Dropbox. This for me is a must have feature in the world of growing cybercrime.

    Just adding my feedback voice on my serious disappointment and frustration with this decision.

    Alex

  • @dteare I'm afraid even the 'self-hosting survey' is a bit disingenuous in the context of the discussion here. As many have said (I won't repeat nbarnard's list), they're not interested in the subscription, or just not interested in sending their data to your servers, and would be perfectly fine with local vaults that they synchronize the way they want.

    Before posting here, I had started filling out that survey, hoping that I could at least add a 'vote' towards local vaults, but that's not the topic of this survey. This survey starts from a solution that you already have in mind, and just checks if there's customers interested in paying for it, or at least using it (but I suspect it would cost extra).

    If I look at the reasons you're listing to be interested in self-hosting, that's when I realize I wouldn't be interested in that. I don't want to maintain a server for that, and I want to maintain my data on my own devices, not even on a local network (because it seems to imply that the server would need to still be accessible regularly for 1Password to work).

    It's nice that you're adding features and all, but not everyone is interested in those new features. It somehow reminds me of the ISP boxes, where they add feature after feature (a router, a hard drive to save TV shows, a NAS, etc etc...), while some people just need a modem that connects to the Internet. They just plug it in, and never use anything on it. All the while it has a crazy processor and fans and makes a lot of heat for nothing.
    It's the same here (as far as I'm concerned): I just want a password manager to hold my passwords locally, make a backup sometimes, and a way to quickly fill them where they're needed. That's about it.

    So, why not extend that survey (or make another one) to see how many people would need local vaults and why?

  • I´m very sad. You switch completely to subscription? You force me to do some research for selfhosted/icloud hosted alternatives after 10 years of being a loyal customer. to be honest: you tend to leave the core functionality over the years anyways and lost the focus. listen to your customers and recalibrate!

  • I'm a little late to the party here, but allow me to call BS on your "customers overwhelmingly chose a subscription" justification you keep trotting out. The standalone license option was hidden in Version 7. The release was heavily advertised as subscription only, and you had to install it before seeing the little fine print hinting that a standalone license was even an option. I would have paid double for an upgrade to version7 using a license, but didn't even bother to download it. I only found out there was a standalone license option when it was announced you were discontinuing it. I would bet 90% of people would choose license over subscription, which is why you hid that option. Subscription option is repulsive to many people. You know that. The honest thing would be to say "Piss off, subscriptions are what WE want." Don't insult my intelligence with this "the people have spoken" crap.

  • I will echo others. I have been a loyal user for almost a decade, paying you guys for your development into this now. I have always been luring my friends into choosing 1pass on the merits "you can have your own vault". My wife said "this will not continue, they will want your data, everyone wants your data on their servers, why wouldn't agilebits?". I said "whew! they are cool and want us secure!". How wrong I was. Everyone wants my data. Will not give.

    Funny how they ignore this thread.

    PS How difficult is it to continue to sync with the local vault?

  • With an update from app-store of the desktop app, legacy chrome extension will not not pick up my local vault (yes, the legacy one, yes tried to relaunch, yes, tried to reinstall several times, yes, cache cleared. In Safari too, yes.)

    Does power corrupt?

  • edited September 9

    It is one thing to force users into a subscription based service, it is another entirely to force users to store their most important info in the cloud - a location that is inherently insecure (no matter how "secure" you claim the 1Password.com cloud to be). When it comes to all of my passwords, CC#, bank accounts, secure notes, etc. I absolutely will not store these items in a place other than my local computer and my iPhone (using Wi-Fi sync). By doing this, I have full control over my data, and I don't have to worry about a data breach.

    While I loathe subscriptions in general, I also don't mind paying them for great software. If 1Password 8 still allowed for local vaults, I would consider sticking with it and paying a subscription. But with their removal, and the questionable decision (to say the least) of moving to Electron for Mac development, 1Password 7 will be the end of the line for me.

    I've been using 1Password since at least v.4 (maybe v.3) and it really pains me to leave, as I truly love it; but it has become abundantly clear that the developers no longer care about the old-time loyal users. I almost feel like I'm going through a breakup... but it is what is I suppose.

  • edited September 10

    Another person here grieving for the loss of great software.

    It just boils down to them being an enormous company and needing to justify the headcount.

    Number of licenses is always going to be less than the number of people they can swindle into a subscription, they’re just appealing to the masses.

    It’s just so sad when someone who served your niche goes mainstream based off the support you gave them for a decade. They now have over 300 employees. That’s an amazing number of employees for something as simple as a password manager! Compare to startups making ground breaking progress, who often have teams of 10 or less. It’s extremely unlikely AgileBits will ever do anything to serve the niche of the security-focused technologist who values high quality software anymore. It was fun while it lasted.

    Side note: there was a strong hostility to people asking questions about local vaults among other things, and that gave me a very strong distaste. I still remember is because every time I come to your forums and see posts from this specific AgileBits employee, I see how poorly they treat customers. I still don’t understand how that person is still employed.

  • Bruno92Bruno92
    edited September 13

    I was a proud user since 2007 of 1P and I have been spending money on upgrades ever since.
    I just use the program as I did on day one, to generate strong passwords, store them locally, and use them when needed, period.
    I don't use any other feature especially no Cloud functionalities. Being in Europe my data remains in Switzerland and nowhere else (Cf. Cloud and Patriot Act).

    So the subscription model, the cloud location issue and the new electron app, seriously?
    Just a NO GO for me.

    _PS: **_
    The 97% users voice mentioned by 1P team is just BS. There is no proof of that.
    I will remind them they postponed their subscription model because of people complaints and then hide **VERY VERY
    well the standalone offer.

  • I was a proud user since 2007 of 1P and I have been spending money on upgrades ever since.
    I use the program as I did on day one, to generate strong passwords, store them locally, and use them when needed.
    I don't use any other feature especially not Cloud functionalities. Being in Europe my data remains in Switzerland and nowhere else (Cf. Cloud and Patriot Act).

    So the subscription model, the cloud location issue and the new electron app, seriously?

    Just a NO GO for me.

    NB:
    To 1P team who always mention the 97% users. I'd like to see.the real figures, hum...
    Also, I'd like to remind them they postponed the subscription model because of people dissatisfaction (97%?).
    No mentioning they hid VERY VERY well the standalone offer.

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