I've been a customer since the first release on the AppStore. Gave v8 a chance, worse than expected
Almost certainly useless writing this post but here we go.
As title states I've been a customer since the very first version on the AppStore, and in recent years I happily paid the annual subscription for my entire family, as the value always seemed to justify the price.
I will not renew the next subscription.
As a software developer myself I was a bit surprised when the news of the electron migration came out, as I understand the pros (basically only saving money) and cons (slowness, non native UI, inconsistencies here and there) and 1Password apps (for Apple devices) were always on the first line of greatly integrated, beautiful native apps.
But knowing the great team behind it I thought "hey, it might be a VSCode situation", in which it's an electron app but really well built, so I waited a little and now gave the v8 beta a try, alongside reading this early access forum's posts. Result: it's worse than I expected.
- UI changed, feels a lot less like v7 and more like a glorified version of the browser extension, which I suppose it's just what it is
- Various annoyances, like scrolling never working at first launch, or input fields not having focus 50% of the times. Which I get it, might be fixed since it's a beta, but again, would have never happened if it stayed native and just improved on v7
- 1Password mini on the menubar: just the worse. UX completely changed, you need five interactions to get an item detail, whereas in v7 you just click on the menubar, start typing and you get a detail view ready on the right. When clicking on the menubar icon the window appears at a random position on the screen (which, again, feels really electron-y) and more times than not it doesn't have keyboard input. Just to be clear: the UX flow to get an item detail "quickly" from the v8 menubar is: 1) click on the menubar icon; 1.5) search the window on the screen; 2) click on the searchfield; 3) navigate with keyboard to the desired item (because clicking only opens the browser); 4) open the "detail" with keyboard; 5) if you're luck and only needed email or password you can now copy them, but if you needed something else bad luck! you need to open the item in the whole app
All of these things would not really be concerning given that this is beta, but reading the output of 1Password communications it's just "oh v8 is so great", "we are so excited on the electron transition (why??)", or "we will think about your feedback, but have you seen how great is v8?". Just.. no.
On the top of it, you keep announcing new side products (looks like VC money have in fact had an impact on the direction..) that are not what made 1Password great.
So from my, an old customer, point of view, the direction of this software is now "more things at the cost of less quality for each", which is the way now things work I suppose: you focus on "easy" maintenance and development fast workflows instead of the end value for the customer.
This is not what I will pay for. Goodbye, sadly.
1Password Version: 8
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: Not Provided
Comments
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I confirm with "nknr"
1Password mini is the worst UI i ever seen. Why does 1Password is doing this? Please think about your next steps. You will loose lots of customers. I hope not to cancel my subscription. Actually i stop using 1P8 and go back to 7.90 -
AgileBits does not care anymore about their Mac customers.
They try to whitewash v8, always and still telling us how great v8 is and that they love it (btw: it seems that it is only the staff of AB, almost NO comments saying that v8 is such a great improvement).
I know from many users (giving their opinion in various German Mac forums) that they will definitely not upgrade to v8.
So, AgileBits, please stopp telling us how great v8 is! It is definitely a step backwards.
Tell us why you stuck so much with continuing with v8, and why you still believe in that this is the best solution ...0 -
Hey @nknr. I'm sorry to hear the experience you had with 1Password 8 was not what you expected. I understand your frustration about the differences between 1Password 7 and 1Password 8 but I do hope that future improvements to the product will make it so that you give it another chance :)
Could you help me understand your issue with the new Quick Access interface? It seems like something's not working quite right on your end and I'd like to explore the issue further. If you could answer the following questions, it'd be super helpful:
- What operating system are you running 1Password on?
- Do you use multiple displays? Or frequently connect/disconnect a display?
- If you open quick access via its keyboard shortcut, does the search field always have focus? You can view the shortcut in your general preferences.
- Does clicking the ⋮ button which appears next to an item in Quick Access when you put your mouse on it, open a menu with a few options for that item?
- If you click "Open Item in New Window" for a specific item, do you see a window with the item's details pop up? And does that window contain all of the fields that are defined on this item? (You should be able to see all fields directly via this window instead of having to open 1Password)
I'm sure you already know this, but we've also baked some useful shortcuts into Quick Access that let you quickly copy a username, password or one-time-password (or other fields depending on the item) without even having to open the "Details" submenu. I'm curious if you've had a chance to try those, and whether they work correctly for you.
Cheers,
Gabriele0 -
Hi, of course we can click the ⋮ button, but this is one more step, and does not follow any useful workflow, when using 1P8. Especially when you need your 2FA
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Hi again @derghostbiker, could you elaborate on what you mean by your last point about 2FA? Quick Access is still in development so we might be able to make improvements here, but I'd like to fully understand what you're experiencing.
Do you generally prefer to use the mouse or the keyboard when navigating Quick Access? When using Quick Access, you can copy a 2FA code from the More Actions menu. That should show up on any item that's configured for 2FA. We've got a keyboard shortcut which you can also activate without even having to open the More Actions menu: Ctrl/Cmd + C to copy the Username, Ctrl/Cmd + Shift + C to copy the password, and Ctrl/Cmd + Alt/Option + C to copy the 2FA code. Depending whether keyboard shortcuts are your preferred workflow, it's possible to get a 2FA code by just searching for the name of an item, using the arrow keys to select it in the list and pressing Ctrl/Cmd + Alt/Option + C. I'm curious if that works for you.
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Hi, why is the need to do an extra step pressing "arrow" key? 7 Versions the workflow in 1Password was straight forward. Why is Agile changing proven workflows?
In 1Password7, i have only two clicks to get my 2FA. In 1Password 8 i have 3 steps with changing from mouse to keyboard, because i have no favorit items and i have to search in Quick access for my 2FA.
Sorry, but the new design is in my opinion a big mistake, ok, it is still beta and i hope somebody how is listening to customers, will do changes in the UI and is going back to a proven workflow.
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@ag_Gabriele I've said it before and I'll say it again. Quick Access is clearly designed for keyboard jockeys. This is what happens when DEVS start thinking their customer base is comprised primarily of other DEVS (or at least "techie, power user" types). And perhaps that is the case now. But for typical users on the individual or family plans taking information that was easily visible before and hiding it behind "more" menus necessitating extra clicks only adds unnecessary friction to the UX. And outlining various arcane keystroke combinations to speed things up is only useful to other keyboard jockeys. It does nothing for those users who prefer to use the mouse or trackpad.
The bottom line is that 1PW Mini had a UI that balanced the needs searchers and browsers. Of keyboard jockeys and mousers/trackpadders. Unfortunately, Quick Access who thrown the latter camp under the bus in favor of a UI that only the former could love.
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I'll be honest: I've pretty much just given up on 1PW mini. Two issues that make it pretty useless for me:
1. Instead of appearing at the top of whichever window/space I'm in, it takes me away to a blank space
2. It is populated automatically with a bunch of sites I never really need to search for, and I'm totally unclear as to why it shows six seemingly random, largely unused sites. I use the browser extension mainly (which is ok, but does not, oddly, provide the password history so I'd need to go to the main app for that, which seems odd since the browser extension has room for it in the dropdown, seemingly).I'm not ready to abandon 1PW. Overall, my experience with v8.x hasn't been anywhere near as bad as I expected. But finding things can be challenging, and I've already had to post at least one or two queries in this forum to find things or figure out how to do things that were obvious in v7.x and earlier.
So for 1PW to be at least more useful, it should never take the user to another window but rather display in the current window (perhaps tethered to the menubar) and there should not be results populated when opened unless, perhaps, it's the most recent or common searches by the user. Or just leave it blank until something is entered in the search box.
I concur that this seems tuned and intended for keyboard jockeys. I'm one of them, but not for everything, and it's challenging enough to remember the shortcut to open the mini window as it is (since some of us also use shortcuts to invoke things like Alfred, etc, and too many keyboard shortcuts become impossible to remember or else get confused with others). Alfred and Spotlight both open in the window I'm currently occupying; why can't/shouldn't 1PW mini?
Thanks.
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@OAW Trust me, so many of 1P's changes in the last year and refusal to implement certain requests make it obvious power users/techies are the LAST of their concerns. Which is sad, since power users/techies are the ones that start moving hype trains.
I really think the nerfed mini is an attempt to placate the part of the base that constantly complains that 1PX and 1P mini do too much, offer too many options, are too big, and are too busy, so now they have turned Mini into a MVP version called Quick Access.
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The problem is that AgileBits threw an almost perfect app to the trash: 1Paswword v7!
It seems that they have all forgotten how v7 worked: We users have to tell the developers what is not working well with v8. We have to tell them what is buggy, what should be more user friendly.
Please guy, please: AgileBits - throw away v8! And start working with v7 again! Do not starting an all new app. you made, you make and you will make so many mistakes. Just look through this forum, users filling it up with countless (beginners) mistakes.
When, when will you understand that this is the wrong way?
It would be nice to get an answer ... Well, ignoring is also an answer. But ignoring says more about you than answering.0 -
Hi, all. We are definitely listening to all feedback, positive or negative. New designs come with growing pains (and this is still early access with changes happening all the time). Having worked on the late (native) Mac app for v8, many of the design/UX issues would've been there, too. Same design language and feature set. We advocated to keep the native app, but that ship has sailed. We (on the Apple team) are focused on not letting the hybrid Mac app rest on its laurels and on the (still native) iOS version.
1Password 7 carries with it a lot of history (both good and bad). This is one of the main reasons its being superseded. The other is primarily about bringing Windows, Linux, and Browser in-line with the Mac/iOS features. Most missing functionality hasn't been ignored, it just hasn't made it in yet. That said, it may look and feel different than v7 once implemented.
Early Access is about getting the app into the hands of more customers, taking that feedback, and iterating upon it. The outside perspective is crucial.
I know this is more for the keyboard jockeys (and was brought up by @ag_Gabriele above), but the shortcuts in the More Actions section of Quick Access are accessible from the previous view. For me, I can do a quick search, navigate to the entry I want, and tap ⌘⌥C and it will copy my OTP. That's the same number of steps as OP7 and a very like experience (to me, at least). Is there something I'm missing from your experience with it?
That said, we have heard the complaints that there's not enough information in Quick Access (I agree). It is being discussed (along with other improvements). All of this said, Quick Access is accessible by clicking the menu bar icon, from the "right click" menu from the menu bar icon, or by keyboard shortcut. And the Quick Access window is navigable by click or keyboard. Are your problems about functionality? Hard to discover features? Something else?
As for v8 being better than v7, I think that depends on your needs and the features you find important. Overall, I was skeptical (and a late internal adopter), but it's come a long way since the first Early Access drop and I've come to like it quite a bit. Is it perfect? No. But, we're doing our best and feedback is essential to achieving that.
Have I missed something from the discussion or have more feedback? Let me/us know. Thanks, all.
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Appreciate the honesty and detailed comments. But I still would appreciate the 1PW mini window appearing, as per most standard Mac apps, in the current window I'm using rather than being hijacked to another open space, and for there to be either nothing in the results until I type a search query, or have it populated with the last few items (as I mentioned, there seems to not be any rhyme or reason for what gets displayed in the window of a blank search field at present).
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Hi @dtoub, you're totally right, the window should appear on the same space as you've been working from rather than another. We've filed that as a bug and it will be looked into.
Right now Quick Access tries to be smart about the item it shows by default by looking at which apps you're running and trying to find related items. It sounds like you're not seeing relevant results. Without going into details, are you seeing it surface any related items at all?
We're planning to improve what Quick Access displays by default, by paying attention to Favorites for example, and item usage history may factor into it too. Let me know if this would be helpful in your case.
Thanks,
Gabriele0 -
@dtoub If you have the time, would you be willing to help me reproduce the Quick Access spaces bug on my machine? I tried opening multiple spaces and opening Quick Access using the default keyboard shortcut in each of them, but it seems to appear in my current space as expected. I wonder what steps you're following to cause it to behave unexpectedly.
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Thanks-great to know. It shows twitter (running), and several for Dropbox (yes, it's there in the background, but it shows anything and everything related from the past that is present in my vault)
Here is my setup: I have my 2018 MBP running the latest seed of Monterey hooked up to a second monitor. Right now I'm in Safari of course and that is full screen. If I invoke 1PW with the menubar or cmd-shift-space, 1PW mini opens in the adjacent space on the same monitor, which is open.
But here's what's interesting: if I have a full-screen app open on my MBP's native display and then invoke the shortcut, it opens as desired in the same window/space. So the issue seems to be when I'm invoking it on my external display, which is being used as my main monitor (spanning with my MBP). Hope that helps. Thanks.
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Thanks @dtoub, this helps a lot. Regarding the results list, all I can say for now is that we're working on improving this and you may see improvements in the upcoming versions, though I can't share concrete plans or dates yet.
Your explanation of the spaces issue was quite helpful and from the looks of it seems like a bug we've also identified in our testing and we're trying to diagnose. So we will try to get that fixed soon too! :)
As always, let me know in case there's something else you'd like help with.
Gabriele
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@ag_Gabriele @nknr @""Craig.Pearlman_1P"
Full disclosure: I am a self-proclaimed software guru and I've been using 1Password since v3. I don't like the way Agilebits beats around the bush when it comes to takeaways for local accounts and I was fully expecting to loathe v8 and the family subscription plan. I do still hate the price, but factoring that out, this product is unstoppable.
V8 on my Mac Mini 2012 (upgraded) is pretty smooth and on my PC is like buttery smooth. I have never used an electron app so responsive. I can imagine how well it performs M1 or M1 Pro/Max (Maybe i'll find out one day!) The web interface is really a godsend for accessing my PW info at work and I feel pretty safe hosting the info with Agilebits. I was happy to dump my Dropbox trial as they're going downhill with their bloat software.
I think AgileBits has made a number of mistakes with the interface but not in the way you think:
1. The Thanksgiving notice needs to go, seriously. It's annoying... VERY annoying to have to keep seeing it over and over.
2. The blue sidebar on the PC is ugly. Please just match the interface with the Mac as that's perfect.
3. The web interface desperately needs a native dark mode. I'm using Dark Reader currently, but I cannot believe AgileBits hasn't implemented yet. I know they perfect light theme first, but it's almost 2022... it can't be THAT hard to give us dark mode on a web page.I've hosted a compilation of my feedback: https://1password.community/discussion/124334/a-compilation-of-feedback-for-1pw-8-4-family-membership#latest
Overall, 1PW continues to evolve and be the BEST password manager. You guys just need to drop the price. $1 a month for individual and $3 for family is more fair.
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Hello again @mia!
- The Thanksgiving notice needs to go, seriously. It's annoying... VERY annoying to have to keep seeing it over and over.
Could you please provide a screenshot of what you're referring to?
Edit: Disregard. I see you already have in another thread you provided this same feedback on. :+1:- The blue sidebar on the PC is ugly. Please just match the interface with the Mac as that's perfect.
I will suggest to the design team that they consider it. :)
- The web interface desperately needs a native dark mode. I'm using Dark Reader currently, but I cannot believe AgileBits hasn't implemented yet. I know they perfect light theme first, but it's almost 2022... it can't be THAT hard to give us dark mode on a web page.
This is something I very much want as well. I'll continue to advocate for it at every opportunity.
You guys just need to drop the price. $1 a month for individual and $3 for family is more fair.
We need to charge prices that cover the cost of offering the service, including a growing staff which expect fair wages and benefits. In order to remain competative in the market we have to be able to attract talented people, and that means we have to charge rates that allow us to do so. That said, we appreciate the feedback, and will take it into consideration.
Thanks!
Ben
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Not to go off-topic, but we have one of the highest levels of wealth inequality in the world and folks have figured out that it’s not compelling to work at the same job for crappy wages. So while I’ve never been a fan of subscription models from a consumer perspective, if this is helping to acquire and retain staff at a decent or better wage, I’m all for it. Good to hear.
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Not to go off-topic, but we have one of the highest levels of wealth inequality in the world and folks have figured out that it’s not compelling to work at the same job for crappy wages. So while I’ve never been a fan of subscription models from a consumer perspective, if this is helping to acquire and retain staff at a decent or better wage, I’m all for it. Good to hear.
I hope to be able to speak more on the subject in the future, but I suppose as you say it is a bit off-topic for this thread. Another thread another time. But I will say I feel we've made some moves in the right direction on that front. :)
Ben
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@dtoub were I a business like AgileBits, I would've moved to subscription as well. It helps to have a steady and predictable stream of income to pay your staff. It's also a gamble because if the product goes downhill, people stop subscribing and your business may fail. That said, subscription fatigue is a real thing. I've dropped many softwares I've used in the past but 1PW is just too vital for me to drop at this current time.
@Ben I was able to remove the ugly and blinding bright orange bar with uBlock origin.
"I will suggest to the design team that they consider it. "
Thank you, please do. It just doesn't make sense to have the PC version especially as the whole point of going electron was to streamline the experience. This is a first-world problem to be sure, but it was a very bizarre decision for the design team to go with that blue color.0 -
@mia You're absolutely right that the blue sidebar on Windows isn't as nice as what we have on Mac. We're working on bringing the same effect to Windows but it's a bit more difficult than expected, so it'll probably take some time. Rest assured it's on our minds as well though :)
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