No upgrade from Version 6?

Ind3X

@Ben

Will the pre-release sale price be the same as the discounted beta version price that is currently on offer? As ScreamingPict says, I am not particularly happy to beta test my password manager software either, will happily wait for the pre release sale if the discount is the same.

What benefits are there to having a 1Password membership exactly? Other than I can use it across multiple devices without having to purchase the software on every one of them (I only have 1 device with a standalone licence so that’s not much of an incentive tbh). I’m not sold (or am unaware of) the benefits. Maybe you can change my mind….it’s open :) … Actually, the only one I can think of is the ability to access the data from anywhere, since you got rid of 1Password Anywhere, which I used a couple of times.

And finally… could you please explain why it costs more to develop and support a standalone licence compared to a subscription licence? That doesn’t make sense to me at all. You still have to develop and support the endpoint software regardless of the licensing model, if anything, building and maintaining your own servers and backend to support the 1password membership functions would surely cost more, no? Sorry, I hope you don’t mind me asking, i’m just intrigued about your statement.

Thanks

Ben

Hi @Ind3X

I’d be happy to help answer those questions to the best of my ability.

Will the pre-release sale price be the same as the discounted beta version price that is currently on offer? As ScreamingPict says, I am not particularly happy to beta test my password manager software either, will happily wait for the pre release sale if the discount is the same.

We haven’t announced what the launch sale pricing will be, so anything I can say would just be speculation, and I’d rather not do too much of that (people tend to get pitch forks and torches when we speculate and then things don’t turn out just so). What I can say is that the point of the pre-release pricing is to help incentivise people to help us test 1Password. It takes a fair amount of time and energy to do so effectively. We are of course testing the software internally as well, but figure: we might have it running on a couple hundred devices, being generous. That is nothing in terms of percentage of the total devices that 1Password is expected to run on. The only way to get any sort of real world data is to have folks like yourself beta test. That said, I totally respect your decision to not beta test production software on a production system. I would imagine that many folks who are helping us test aren’t doing so on their primary device, or if they are they at least have another device to fall back on. So, all of that to say that my guess would be this pre-release sale wouldn’t be that incentivizing if the launch sale were the same price. But that is just my thought, and I have no real insight into what sales or pricing will be down the road.

What benefits are there to having a 1Password membership exactly? Other than I can use it across multiple devices without having to purchase the software on every one of them (I only have 1 device with a standalone licence so that’s not much of an incentive tbh). I’m not sold (or am unaware of) the benefits. Maybe you can change my mind….it’s open :) … Actually, the only one I can think of is the ability to access the data from anywhere, since you got rid of 1Password Anywhere, which I used a couple of times.

Well for one... data availability and reliability of that. One of the primary reasons we started building 1Password memberships was that feedback from customers indicated that syncing via 3rd party solutions did not always provide a great experience. In many cases it was possible for sync to simply stop working with no indication to the customer that had happened. It may not be noticed imediately. A number of changes were made across multiple devices before the problem was noticed and by then it was too late... getting everything back in sync was a nightmare.

I’d say 1Password membership would be especially valuable to you, having only one device. What is your plan if that device is lost or stolen or broken? How are you going to get your 1Password data? 1Password membership makes it easy to answer this question. Grab your Emergency Kit and log in to your account on a new device and you’re back up and running.

At a minimum 1Password membership is insurance for your 1Password data.

And finally… could you please explain why it costs more to develop and support a standalone licence compared to a subscription licence? That doesn’t make sense to me at all. You still have to develop and support the endpoint software regardless of the licensing model, if anything, building and maintaining your own servers and backend to support the 1password membership functions would surely cost more, no? Sorry, I hope you don’t mind me asking, i’m just intrigued about your statement.

I don’t mind at all, but I can really only effectively answer from my perspective here in technical / customer support. 1Password membership for the most part “just works.” It’s very Apple-esque in that way. Standalone vaults on the other hand... Don’t get me wrong — they served us well for a lot of years. I’m not saying they’re bad. They are just more prone to difficulty, and when there is a problem they take longer and are more difficult to troubleshoot. You’re right of course that the infrastructure that is behind 1Password membership is a massive investment, both in terms of development time and cost, but we’d much rather spend the time and money developing a reliable system than continuing to throw money at a problem that money can’t solve. With 1Password membership we control the solution from end to end. This is not the case with standalone vaults.

I hope that helps!

Ben

Ind3X

Thanks for the answers Ben.

I have plenty of insurance for my 1Password data ;-) . I mentioned that I only have 1 device with a standalone licence...not only 1 device total, and I've used your software for years and years and never has a single issue with vaults or sync via 3rd parties, etc. Maybe I've been lucky, I sure hope that continues.

I'm pretty sure the subscription model costs way more over time than the occasional upgrading of my single standalone licence + mobile devices. So I'll stick with those for now. I thought I might have been persuaded with some standout features that I'm currently missing by not having a 1Password subscription licence. TBH I don't think the added features in v7 will get any use from me either, but I'm upgrading nonetheless, to send some cash your way for all the years of trouble free service I've had from your software, and to support further development...just not on a subscription basis ;-)

Thanks.

Ben

Fair enough, thanks. :)

Ben

AGAlumB

@Dianeoforegon: Uh yeah: sharing the cost with people who are close to you with whom you share a mutual trust, not strangers on the internet or acquaintances in real life, which is how I interpreted your entreaty to "Look for friends to help share a family subscription." I'm sorry if I misunderstood though. Just want to make sure no one else does as well. Again, anyone invited to a 1Password Family can be just as easily removed, and, along with that, their data.

AGAlumB

I have plenty of insurance for my 1Password data ;-) . I mentioned that I only have 1 device with a standalone licence...not only 1 device total, and I've used your software for years and years and never has a single issue with vaults or sync via 3rd parties, etc. Maybe I've been lucky, I sure hope that continues.

@Ind3X: If you rely on luck, it will run out eventually. Devices can easily be lost, stolen, destroyed, or simply stop functioning properly. Please be sure to backup your data regularly. Your future self will thank you.

I'm pretty sure the subscription model costs way more over time than the occasional upgrading of my single standalone licence + mobile devices. So I'll stick with those for now. I thought I might have been persuaded with some standout features that I'm currently missing by not having a 1Password subscription licence. TBH I don't think the added features in v7 will get any use from me either, but I'm upgrading nonetheless, to send some cash your way for all the years of trouble free service I've had from your software, and to support further development...just not on a subscription basis ;-)

Thanks for your continued support! We're truly grateful to be able to make a living doing something we love. We hope that shows, and we appreciate you and the rest of our awesome customers for making that possible. :blush:

Ind3X

@brenty : Where do I state that I'm relying on luck? Are you saying that all your customers who were using 1Password prior to 1Password membership (subscriptions) we're 'lucky' that their systems worked as well as they did for many years!? I don't understand where luck comes into this?

As 1Password is one of my most used apps, I will continue to upgrade for the foreseeable future, but please don't try to downplay the effectiveness and reliability of your standalone licences in order to upsell your subscription service. I understand that the subscription service may be a better fit for many people with many desktop computers / devices, but I find it particularly bad taste to try and keep promoting the subscription service blindly, without acknowledging that the standalone licence may definitely be a better fit for others. I did ask @Ben what the benefits of having a membership were (for someone with a single standalone licence), and he just pained a picture of (unlikely) catastrophe. The answer to his question is that I would just buy a new computer, install 1Password (activate with current licence key) and connect it back to my synced vault = no catastrophe. Maybe I'm missing a point here?

I've probably spent less money in 9 years of using a 1Password standalone licence, than what it would cost to subscribe for 3 years. So, assuming that I get another 9 years of absolutely flawless service and functionality out of your software, as I have for the last 9 years, why would I swap to what is potentially a more expensive subscription service? As mentioned earlier, I have an open mind and could be convinced...but certainly not by you telling me that I'm relying on luck, or that catastrophe looms...I want technical info, details of any actual security & usability benefits, perhaps any extra functionality that I get with a subscription. I'm not really interested in the licensing / cross platform benefits.

Could you also please tell me if the beta version overwrites v6, or can be used (tested) alongside it? Thanks.

AGAlumB

Where do I state that I'm relying on luck?

@Ind3X: Here, I thought:

Maybe I've been lucky, I sure hope that continues.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

Are you saying that all your customers who were using 1Password prior to 1Password membership (subscriptions) we're 'lucky' that their systems worked as well as they did for many years!?

I think that's a reasonable way of putting it. The reality is that most people don't backup their data. If they do, they do so sporadically, locally, not consistently backing up data offsite. Maybe you are. I hope you are.

I don't understand where luck comes into this?

If you haven't experienced a hardware failure or filesystem issue that resulted in data loss, then, yes, I consider you lucky. I sure have. We're (hopefully) coming to the end of the era of spinning magnetic disks, but solid state drives fail too. And consumer filesystems are, to put it mildly, not great about data integrity.

As 1Password is one of my most used apps, I will continue to upgrade for the foreseeable future, but please don't try to downplay the effectiveness and reliability of your standalone licences in order to upsell your subscription service.

Let's stop right there. I'm not. Don't be silly. Licenses have no special "lose your data" feature. That's just inherent in the technology of these devices we all depend on. And, quite literally, the 1Password apps themselves, which we're using on these devices, are the same whether we purchase a license or sign up for a 1Password.com membership. The only difference is that 1Password.com memberships don't depend on the local data being okay forever or the user having a solid backup strategy, as the server handles both.

I understand that the subscription service may be a better fit for many people with many desktop computers / devices, but I find it particularly bad taste to try and keep promoting the subscription service blindly, without acknowledging that the standalone licence may definitely be a better fit for others.

If you're comfortable managing everything yourself — including a 3-2-1 backup strategy — then I wholeheartedly agree that a license could be a good fit for you. That's just not the case for most people, and, given my own experiences with data loss, and the fact that this is a public forum, I'm going to mention it, as it may benefit others even if you do not particularly care.

I did ask @Ben what the benefits of having a membership were (for someone with a single standalone licence), and he just pained a picture of (unlikely) catastrophe. The answer to his question is that I would just buy a new computer, install 1Password (activate with current licence key) and connect it back to my synced vault = no catastrophe. Maybe I'm missing a point here?

Ben's response to your question was not a painting "of (unlikely) catastrophe". It's all too common for people to lose data, either because of a mistake they make or because of some technical issue. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you're not perfect. I'm certainly not. So maybe you make mistakes sometimes too. I've definitely made an accidental change to a file in the past and wished I could go back and revert it. With Time Machine, as long as I keep up with backing up to that, I can for the most part now. 1Password.com's item history is similar to that, except there's nothing I have to do (remember to connect the drive, setup a new one when it's full, etc.) for it to work. So there's that. But just this evening I've been working with three different customers who'd syncing separate local vaults with each other by accident, dumping data from both together. It's really rough to sort stuff like that out. It's our job to help with stuff like that, and we're happy to do so, but even if we're able to find a solution, these people will never get the hours of their lives back which they spend to get everything back the way the want it, if they can at all. So while I appreciate that you may not have personally experienced issues like those, or simple hardware failure (or a device that goes for a swim), please consider that yours is a very small sample size, statistically speaking.

I've probably spent less money in 9 years of using a 1Password standalone licence, than what it would cost to subscribe for 3 years. So, assuming that I get another 9 years of absolutely flawless service and functionality out of your software, as I have for the last 9 years, why would I swap to what is potentially a more expensive subscription service?

Indeed, it totally depends on your situation and needs. Maybe you use 1Password primarily — or exclusively — on your Mac. Most people these days want to, need to, and/or expect to use 1Password across all of a variety of their different devices though, so it often makes more sense for those people to use a 1Password.com membership since it includes all of the apps and all of the updates, many of which would be separate purchases for them otherwise.

As mentioned earlier, I have an open mind and could be convinced...but certainly not by you telling me that I'm relying on luck, or that catastrophe looms...I want technical info, details of any actual security & usability benefits, perhaps any extra functionality that I get with a subscription. I'm not really interested in the licensing / cross platform benefits.

That makes sense. Please re-read my last reply to you though. It was pretty straightforward (and, as my replies go, was fairly succinct, I think). All I did was suggest that you backup your data, and thank you for your support. If you have questions, whether about 1Password.com or features available in the standalone app, we're happy to answer them. :blush:

Could you also please tell me if the beta version overwrites v6, or can be used (tested) alongside it? Thanks.

They can be used on the same system. I use both at times. But I wouldn't recommend it as you could run into some conflicts, and we may have 1Password 7 replace 1Password 6 later on.

AGAlumB

@Ind3X: Hey, I just wanted to follow up here to apologize and to say that I was wrong. I let my feelings cloud my judgement and negatively impact my replies to you. You deserve better. I've lost data in the past and the thought of that happening to anyone else makes me sick, but that's no excuse for me to be flippant toward you. And the last thing I want you to do is feel like we don't care or haven't given you the best we can regardless of what version you choose or how you happen to pay for it. That couldn't be further from the truth. So I'm sorry that I gave you that impression. We're passionate about what we do, and I am sorry that I let that passion get the better of me in this case, and that it may have made you feel like I was denigrating your choices. I hope you won't let my stupidity influence your impression of 1Password or the great folks here at AgileBits. :(

Ben

If standalone licenses had no value we wouldn't offer them anymore. That said we do feel that for the vast majority 1Password membership is going to be the superior experience in terms of ease of use, "set it and forget it"-ness, and feature set. There are certainly people who prefer to DIY and don't mind having to think about these sorts of things. I tend to be one, when it comes to technology. I should show off my home networking lab sometime, heh. But even I've moved everything over to 1Password.com. It just makes life easier, and after helping folks with 1Password all day the last thing I wanted to do in my free time was troubleshoot and manage my own 1Password setup. With 1Password membership it "just works," and that is what I want.

If you're happy with the standalone arrangement and would like to continue that's great. Please feel free to do so. But please do excuse us for being passionate about membership. It doesn't come from being told by management to be. It comes from finding it to be the best from our own personal experiences.

Ben

raffi

Hi, I'm a french user with license. Using version 6.

1Password 6
Version 6.8.8 (688002)
AgileBits Store

Even if beta checked in the update part, I see no way to get 1password 7 beta ?
Can you let me know how I can get version 7beta ?

AGAlumB

@raffi: You can get it from the announcement here in this Mac beta forum category:

Welcome to the 1Password 7 for Mac Beta!

Cheers! :)

JohnDoe1983

I have 1Password 6 on my Iphone, Imac, Ibook, Ipad etc... I only bought 1 licence

Will I be able to use my Ver 6 them for many years even though I do not upgrade to ver7 ?

Also, If i do upgrade to ver 7, will I be able to use it on all my hardware with a single licence without having to pay each year to use it as I have done with ver 6 ?

Since I use a lot of hardware, it would be so much costly for me me otherwise.

Thanks, I just love this software.

Ben

Licenses don't expire, though the practicality of running security software that isn't being updated any longer for years into the future... it would likely not be a wise decision. So can you continue to use v6 indefinitely? Certainly, for as long as it continues to work for you. We won't be updating it to be compatible with future releases of macOS or web browsers though, so you'd likely also have to keep those versions back. Not really a great situation.

Also, If i do upgrade to ver 7, will I be able to use it on all my hardware with a single licence without having to pay each year to use it as I have done with ver 6 ?

1Password for iOS is sold separately from 1Password for Mac, however we did release the 1Password 6 for iOS -> 1Password 7 for iOS upgrade at no additional cost for folks already using the Pro features on v6.

Since I use a lot of hardware, it would be so much costly for me me otherwise.

The least expensive and least complicated way to use 1Password is going to be with a 1Password membership as discussed above. :)

Ben

rennsport

So I have a question about the licenses. Right now I have 1Password v6 purchased as a standalone through the Mac App Store, and I sync all my passwords via iCloud (I also have local backups of my computer on various NAS RAIDs). That was semi-irrelavent, but why not put it. My question comes from the fact that I use the Mac App Store's family purchase sharing to give my father, mother, and brother access to my 1Password purchase without them needing to purchase it (as much as we enjoy the app and as much as we want to support you guy, it is a feature so why not use it). From what I've read here in this thread and generally from you guys, if we all want to continue using the standalone 1Password license we will all need to purchase our own licenses moving forward?

AGAlumB

@rennsport: As Ben mentioned, you can certainly continue using 1Password as you have been, with the version you purchased. Or you can pay for a new version for each person. But a 1Password Families membership makes it so much easier to share 1Password — and vaults, securely — with your loved ones. You and I may be comfortable with elaborate backup strategies and sync configuration, but perhaps not all of our loved ones are quite so keen on that stuff! And rather than just getting your family 1Password for Mac version 7, a 1Password Families membership gives you access to all of the apps, the web interface, and does away with license management and sync configuration altogether — you simply login to your account to authorize a device and access your data. You can try it for free for 30 days to take advantage of all of its benefits. Something to consider. :)

rennsport

@brenty: if I have a MacBook Pro and a MacMini where I need access to my vault would I need to purchase two standalone licenses for personal use if I choose to go the standalone route?

Jacob

@rennsport You would only need one license. You can use it on as many Macs as you have. If you want to use 1Password on iOS, Windows, or Android, a 1Password membership is a better option since you pay less and get more. :)

rennsport

@Jacob Thanks for the info. If I get an account can I choose not to have my data hosted by you guys? That is continue to sync my vaults how I already do, but use the account for the additional features such as keeping up-to-date on the applications?

Jacob

@rennsport Since a 1Password account includes that by default, it'd be some tough work getting around it. I wouldn't recommend using your membership that way as it will cause some issues down the road. If it's a question of how safe your data is on 1Password.com, it's very, very safe.

There are three umbrellas of security in 1Password accounts. ☔ Before all of them is your Master Password and Secret Key. In the standalone version of 1Password, everything is protected by your Master Password and all the security wizardry in the app. But in an account, the Secret Key is used to strengthen things even further. If you have a weak password, it's very unlikely someone will be able to access your data because the Secret Key is a 128-bit string of characters that's generated locally when you set up your account. It never leaves your device, and we ask that you print it out to have a copy in case you need it later — you're probably not going to remember the whole thing. ;)

It’s great to have a Master Password and Secret Key protect your data, but they also need to communicate with the server to access your data, so we use three layers to protect things at rest and in transit. The first layer is based on your Master Password and Secret key, which are used to derive a secret that is used to securely encrypt all of your data, both at rest and in transit between your devices and our servers. The second layer is based on the Secure Remote Password protocol. It allows your devices and our servers to make sure they are who they say they are. This provides an additional layer of protection against attack. The third and final layer is the standard TLS/SSL protocol. This layer provides a final layer of encryption and also allows your web browser to indicate that you were communicating directly with a 1Password web server.

Learn more about how 1Password protects your data when you use a sync service

Hope that helps provide a bit of reassurance. :)

breuerm

Hi, just another license question. I bought a stand alone 6.8 version end of December 2017 and also using a windows version since many years. If I buy the Mac 7 beta version, is the license also good to go for my Windows PC or do I need to buy both beta versions?
I definitely will not go a fee based model!

MrRooni

@breuerm The licenses are per platform, so if you purchase a license for 1Password 7 for Mac, you will need to purchase a separate license to use 1Password 7 for Windows. Thanks for the question!

RAPWare

But a 1Password Families membership makes it so much easier to share 1Password — and vaults, securely — with your loved ones. You and I may be comfortable with elaborate backup strategies and sync configuration, but perhaps not all of our loved ones are quite so keen on that stuff! And rather than just getting your family 1Password for Mac version 7, a 1Password Families membership gives you access to all of the apps, the web interface, and does away with license management and sync configuration altogether — you simply login to your account to authorize a device and access your data.

What a great product this could be if you just offered possibility to store the data on my own DAS, NAS, Server....

Ben

It is unlikely that your home network would have the infrastructure to accomidate a 1Password server. I’ve got what I consider to be a fairly built-out home network environment and I wouldn’t consider it. When / if such a solution becomes available it would likely only be practical for large companies to consider it.

Further discussion on the topic is available here:

1Password for Teams - On-Premise / Self-Hosted Solution — AgileBits Support Forum

(closed due to automatic archiving)

And more information about what our infrastructure looks like can be found here:

Terraforming 1Password - AgileBits Blog

Ben

raffi

I just feel totally lost guys !
I started the 1 month free : looks like there's no way to come back on buying a standalone licence ? I don't really see interest of membership for the simple usage I have.

Window size is not coming back to what I want when I restart the software.

How can I install 1password7 on iOs ? If I try the membership installation on iOs price is 4,49€ (vs 2,99$ on MacOS) ? but as I don't understand how it works I prefer keeping existing habits.

I think I would like to buy standalone licence for MacOs + iOs.
How can I do this.

Sorry I'm french :(
Thanks for helping

cortig

@raffi, you don't absolutely have to go through a subscription. I upgraded my regular licence to a regular license for version 7 and it's working fine.
I also sync with my iPhone without using the subscription. I'm syncing my Vaults through dropbox and it's working fine. Just don't use the Membership option on the iOS version either.

Corentin

raffi

@cortig Thanks for replying. You probably click on buying link on first start, and I did not make that choice. Now can't find the way to buy it

• I would like to understand how to fix window position/size :(

cortig

@raffi, can you log out of the trial subscription? I wish I could offer more details about the required steps, but I can't see the options myself since I'm using the licensed mode…

Corentin

raffi

Even after reinstalling I'm not prompted to buy :-/
maybe I can try uninstalling, but too afraid to delete commun file with 1password6 :(

MrRooni

Good evening folks. If you'd like to switch to a standalone license purchase from your subscription trial your best bet would be to erase your 1Password 7 data and start over:

1. Open 1Password and the quit it completely using the ⌘+Option+Control+Q shortcut. (Make sure you stretch first!)
2. In the Finder click on the Go menu and paste in this path: ~/Library/Group Containers/
3. Delete the folder there named 2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebits
4. Relaunch 1Password 7 and you should be presented with the option to subscribe or purchase a license.

Let me know if you run into any trouble or need any other help.