Best way to sync between family members with subscription? (Not iCloud)

whydavewhy

I have a 1Password stand-alone license for version 6.8.8 on my Mac, and 1Password Pro for iOS version 7.2.2 on my iPhone XS. Since Family Sharing was available for those versions, my wife also has it on her Mac and iPhone XS. We use Dropbox to sync our data. It works perfectly. When she adds or edits an item in hers, it is updated in mine, and vice versa. Now that Family Sharing is no longer available for the stand-alone Mac version, we would like to purchase the Subscription version for Families. The problem is that we each have our own iCloud accounts, and Apple does not permit sharing anything in iCloud across different Apple IDs, including syncing 1Password data. Can the Subscription for Families use Dropbox for synching, instead of iCloud? It would be extremely problematic for my wife to have to log out of her iCloud account, log in to my iCloud account, then log back in to hers again, each time she makes an edit or addition to 1Password, or wants to sync. How could Agile Bits settle on such a terrible way for Mac users in families to sync their data with each other? Requiring each person to constantly sign in to a different iCloud account is nuts. Am I missing something here? I know Agile Bits often says that Dropbox is problematic and iCloud is not, but I've never had a problem with Dropbox. Any help would be appreciated.

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1Password Version: 6.8.8
Extension Version: Not Provided
OS Version: 10.14.1
Sync Type: Dropbox

Ben

@whydavewhy

1Password Families is a first party solution to syncing and sharing your data. There is no need (or ability) to use a 3rd party sync service for 1Password Families data. :)

About 1Password Families

Ben

whydavewhy

That is awesome! A few more questions:
1) So no need for iCloud or Dropbox? (I thought that multiple family members syncing with 1Password Families required iCloud.)
2) Are you saying that 1Password Families (with a shared vault) will let my wife and I both make edits to shared items?
3) Will edits on our iPhones sync with our Macs as well?
4) Since my wife and I were previously using the stand-alone version and synching via Dropbox, is there a good link with steps for transitioning to a 1Password Families subscription, and syncing to a shared vault?

Lars

@whydavewhy

So no need for iCloud or Dropbox?

Right. No need for any mucking around with setting up, maintaining and (potentially) troubleshooting advanced, complicated 3rd party sync services

I thought that multiple family members syncing with 1Password Families required iCloud

Nope.

Are you saying that 1Password Families (with a shared vault) will let my wife and I both make edits to shared items?

Yup. :)

Will edits on our iPhones sync with our Macs as well?

Presuming you set up your account on your phones, and don't leave them running your old standalone vaults. :)

Since my wife and I were previously using the stand-alone version and synching via Dropbox, is there a good link with steps for transitioning to a 1Password Families subscription, and syncing to a shared vault?

Excellent question! ;) There is indeed. Make sure you follow steps for EVERY device. Let us know if you have any further questions or run into any problems.

whydavewhy

Thanks Lars. Last thing (I promise): I noticed that 1Password Families is listed at $6.99/mo. on the App Store site, but only $5.99/mo. on the Agile Bits site. Is that correct? Is there an advantage to using the App Store versus the Agile Bits site? I like the way the App Store does updates, and the 1Password account is managed via iTunes, but not if I have to pay extra. How do I get updates if purchased directly from Agile Bits?

Thanks!

Ben

Last thing (I promise):

No worries; we're here to help. :)

I noticed that 1Password Families is listed at $6.99/mo. on the App Store site, but only $5.99/mo. on the Agile Bits site. Is that correct?

Yes and no. Based on the prices you mentioned it sounds like you may be Canadian. Is that correct? If so it is possible to subscribe to 1Password Families at $5.99 CAD + tax / mo when billed annually via either our website or the App Store. The difference is that with the App Store you have to sign up for monthly billing first and then manually go in and switch to annual billing.

Is there an advantage to using the App Store versus the Agile Bits site?

Nope. If anything I usually steer people toward billing through our site. Any promotions we run are typically only going to be available when billed by us, and we'll be able to help directly with any billing issues. If you subscribe through Apple any billing issues would need to be handled by Apple.

I like the way the App Store does updates, and the 1Password account is managed via iTunes, but not if I have to pay extra. How do I get updates if purchased directly from Agile Bits?

1Password for Mac and 1Password for Windows have built-in updaters when downloaded from our website. You can also download 1Password for Mac from the Mac App Store if you have a 1Password membership subscription. 1Password for iOS, like all iOS apps, is installed and updated through the App Store, regardless of where you set up billing.

My recommendation would be to create your account and set up billing in a web browser on your Mac, and when prompted to print your Emergency Kit:

Get to know your Emergency Kit | 1Password

We have a guide that may help in migrating your data:

Move your existing 1Password data to a 1Password account

In my opinion that provides the smoothest experience. I hope that helps!

Ben

whydavewhy

Never mind; Lars from Agile Bits just informed me that 1Password Families does not require iCloud or Dropbox. Awesome!!

whydavewhy

Thanks to you also, Ben. I'm in the U.S., not Canada. Looks like when paid annually, 1Password Families is $4.99/mo., but it is $6.99/mo. when paid monthly. The "annually/monthly" thing is not explained very well on your site, nor on the App Store site; I had to do a lot of hunting. I think the $6.99 price on the App Store is because you have to first choose monthly, before switching to annual, as you said. Once again, not clear at all on the site. One other odd thing is that the App Store says 1Password is compatible with Apple's "Family Sharing" protocol; I assume that if one purchased the non-Family version of 1Password, and then shared the app with a family member, the problem would be in sharing the data; they would have to log into the same iCloud account (which would be a pain), versus purchasing the 1Password Families version, where sharing would be much more painless (not having to deal with iCloud or Dropbox), right?

whydavewhy

Now that I have migrated all my items from my old Vault into the Private Vault of the new version of 1Password, I need to MOVE (not copy) everything from my Private Vault into the Shared Vault, so my wife and I can share everything and edit everything. Once I have done that, I assume that my Private Vault will be empty? I went to the link, "Move your existing 1Password data to a 1Password account," but it does not cover that. Is there a way that I can move everything to the Shared Vault in one shot, while still maintaining all the organization, Tags, Categories, etc.?

Ben

One other odd thing is that the App Store says 1Password is compatible with Apple's "Family Sharing" protocol; I assume that if one purchased the non-Family version of 1Password, and then shared the app with a family member, the problem would be in sharing the data; they would have to log into the same iCloud account (which would be a pain), versus purchasing the 1Password Families version, where sharing would be much more painless (not having to deal with iCloud or Dropbox), right?

That isn't something we can remove (i.e. we can't opt out of saying 1Password is compatible with Family Sharing), but Family Sharing has no real effect on 1Password. All Family Sharing does is allow family members in your iCloud family download the app... which they could do anyway since the app is free for anyone to download.

Now that I have migrated all my items from my old Vault into the Private Vault of the new version of 1Password, I need to MOVE (not copy) everything from my Private Vault into the Shared Vault, so my wife and I can share everything and edit everything. Once I have done that, I assume that my Private Vault will be empty? I went to the link, "Move your existing 1Password data to a 1Password account," but it does not cover that. Is there a way that I can move everything to the Shared Vault in one shot, while still maintaining all the organization, Tags, Categories, etc.?

You can learn about how to move items between vaults here:

Move and copy items | 1Password

Also please note that if you still have a vault called "Primary" on any of your devices that should be deleted.

Ben

whydavewhy

Thanks so much. Everything is now moved to my Shared Vault. Since I have 1Password Families, I sent an invitation to my wife, which she replied to, and I confirmed. The last step that I cannot find instructions for anywhere (forums, Agile Bits site, etc.), is how does my wife install 1Password Families on HER Mac, and does she need to sign in with HER email address or mine? When she tries to download the app, it asks for her credit card, which I don't understand, because Agile Bits already has my credit card, and she is already part of the 1Password Families subscription that I already started. This really needs to be made clearer on the Agile Bits site. All the site has is a page that says how great it is to invite family members, but then there is no mention about what the members have to do on THEIR end (how to install, master passwords, email address, etc.). Any help would be appreciated.

whydavewhy

OK, I finally got everything set up for my wife’s Mac, but when she opens 1Password and goes to Preferences / Security, the checkbox for “Allow Touch ID to unlock 1Password” is grayed-out. She tried rebooting and re-entering her master password, and the problem remains. Any tips?

whydavewhy

OMG - Now it's working. OK, I don't know what happened but everything's OK now. Seriously, there needs to be a simple step by step document taking the user through the entire process of installing, inviting, then the other person replying, installing, etc. there is so much marketing and links that take the person away from their original question, it's just all very confusing. I did tech support for 20 years, and I was lost for most of the day trying to do this. Please consider posting one document with the entire process for Mac, for PC, etc.
Thanks. (Great product though, once it gets working. And if you want to steer everyone to the subscription model, like I finally went with, don't do it by hiding the stand-alone; just make a comparison chart. That will make it so much easier for customers to see that the subscription version is less expensive in the long run, better for sharing, etc. Thanks again.)

Ben

I'm glad to hear that it worked out @whydavewhy. Your feedback regarding a single guide is well taken. Could you please let me know what was necessary that was not outlined in this guide?

https://support.1password.com/migrate-1password-account/

Ben

whydavewhy

The confusing part is that in the first section, “Sign up or join an account,” the instructions for 1Password Families combine the steps for setting up an account, with the steps for replying to an invitation for an account that has already been set up.

Then it makes it even more confusing, by instructing the reader to, “use your existing Master Password.” This part in particular caused me a lot of headaches, because after I set up my account in 1Password Families, and invited my wife, I thought it was telling me to use the existing Master Password for the account, for my wife as well. At this point, my wife was seeing my name and my account each time she tried to log in, because she was using the existing Master Password. After a lot of searching on the web, I found information saying that each person should have a different Master Password.

Additionally, there are no steps explaining what the invitee does following the invitation, to install the app on their computer.

Rather than combine the inviter and invitee steps under “Sign up or join an account,” it would be better to have a section titled, “Installation and Setup.” The steps would then be listed in the order they need to be done. For example…
1) Sign up, download and install the app
2) Create a family account (Master Password, etc.)
3) Invite family member
4) Family member replies
5) Inviter confirms
6) Family member downloads and installs app
7) Family member creates their own different Master Password

…etc.

Also, think about a simple comparison chart showing the pros/cons/pricing of stand-alone versus subscription, rather than making the stand-alone version impossible to find, and getting people mad. I was one of those who abhorred the idea of a subscription, until I spent hours finding out all the information on both.

Thanks!

David

Lars

@whydavewhy - thanks for the feedback, we'll pass it along. :)