Electron
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You are the best, @blankspace!
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@roustem Thank you for taking the time to explain this all! With how big of a splash the 1P8 Mac beta has made, I'm sure you've got lots of other stuff to deal with right now.
Understanding now that most of the backend is independent, and the technical constraints you're working with, I think I agree that Electron is a reasonable solution (not that it really matters what I think 😁). Seems like most of the high memory usage problems with this front end are as a result of it being in beta, not because it's Electron.
It's good to know that a different front end isn't off the table, for when the time is right.
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It is very difficult to sign in to any of my other accounts because I get a blocking, modal dialog box to sign in to a new account and that prevents access to the vault information stored in my 1Password vault.
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Also, why does the preferences window have an X to close the window in the upper right hand corner of the window? Just now I went to close the Preferences window and got confused when I could not find the red close button in the upper left hand corner.
P.S. I am trying to be open minded and explore the new app before making too many judgments.
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I too am disappointed by the move to an Electron-based app. Others have already noted why this is a bad move, but I'd like to point out a "case study".
Arq Backup released Arq 6, an Electron-based version of their previously native Mac app Arq 5. Arq 6 was kind of a dumpster fire, with the Electron aspect being just one issue. However, they listened to customer feedback, scratched Arq 6 completely and released Arq 7 later, which was a native Mac app. UI/UX wise, it was so much better than the Electron version. You can check out the blog post where they explain their rationale for going back to native - looks a lot like this thread.
This isn't an ad for Arq or anything, I just wanted to show that it's possible to admit that Electron is bad, backtrack and delay a release. I was positively surprised when Arq did it, and I really hope you guys will deliver a similar surprise.
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Seeing so bad feedback, I'm afraid of even trying 1P8 on Mac. Will you support 1P7 at least until 1P9 release? Hopefully you will revert to native app by then or make some magic fixes to all issues reported in this thread for chrome-y version. If I stay on 1P7 would I need to worry about security or anything?
You put me as a user in very difficult situation, because you're making changes to my established local environment and now you are making me spend time on something that I could just forget about it until now. Less time for me to work or leisure. I might also end up changing password tool if it becomes such burden.0 -
Can we have the CMD+Backspace shortcut for quick autofill back? This has been a muscle memory for many.
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Hi @DreamyLucid
Can we have the CMD+Backspace shortcut for quick autofill back? This has been a muscle memory for many.
Indeed; we’re actively working through feedback on this. We’re considering changing the default back. Regardless of the default this will absolutely be customizable. My colleague Andrew is working on customization of keyboard shortcuts today.
Thanks for the valuable feedback!
Ben
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@Ben thank you and glad to hear that the default keyboard shortcut would be back.
I have seen the furore over the use of Electron for 1Password 8. To be honest, I am not a fan of Electron as well. However, I made the effort to try the new app and I like the UI/UX, albeit there are still some missing features. I understand that this is not final, so I hope to see some old features back again.
Having said that, I felt that the 1Password 8 is much smoother and responsive, especially when hitting CMD+E to edit an item when compared to a more sluggish performance on 1Password 7. Surprisingly, the electron app seemed to be much better than the native app.
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We're on day 2 of the Early Access. I think it is likely too soon to call very many decisions final. The closest I have to an answer is this:
Ben
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I can't say that the transition to Electron fills me with warm feelings. Used too many truly horrible ones in the past and nothing that I would consider great. VS Code is acceptable because of how powerful it is, and code editors are semi-unique use case, but it still isn't great.
Honestly, if the things behaves like a native app and doesn't burn a ton of resources, I wouldn't care what you write it in. Electron is just scary because of how literally zero Electron apps feel native. Some can get away with it, but that doesn't make them good.
I'm not going to knee jerk cancel my subscription over this, for lots of reasons, but really hope things are improved drastically before it is actually released. Even something like the menu bar app being native with a native mini-app would make things better than they stand now.
As an aside, I think the beta for Windows is fantastic, but that is because the old Windows app wasn't anywhere close to the standard set by the Mac app.
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I'm not on Mac but on Windows, but I'm not happy too on that platform with the huge memory use. I switched back to v7 a few weeks ago, so I cannot exactly tell the difference, but as far as I remember, v8 has double or triple memory demands, and v8 isn't yet feature complete, so it will probably increase even more. And this for an app that is not that feature rich. For me, it appears as just being a simple app with a few text forms. And this will use 200 MB RAM? I consider that bloat. The app is fast and responsive, but it's bloated. It's not a main app, it's just a small companion that runs in background and will help you to manage your passwords.
Look at the Windows 10 OneNote App. The App needs 50-80 MB RAM, and I have a huge complex filled notebook open. The OneNote desktop app is about the same. This is what I call a sane memory consumption for a modern state of the art app of this kind. I feel 1Password has less functions than OneNote, but it occupies double the resources.
Consider every small app is using the same programming frameworks. Bloat everywhere. Do we all need 16 gig memory just for office-like work in the future?
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I've been a 1Password customer/subscriber for 15 years and am extremely disappointed with the decision to move from a native Mac app to an Electron web app.
1Password has always been one my favorite native Mac apps because it's an excellent first-class citizen. I don't understand how you've taken hundreds of millions of VC funding and at the same time are scaling back your development work to focus on a web app instead of native apps.
I do not want an Electron web app - Slack, Discord, and Arq are all extremely frustrating to use.
Please change course and build a native Mac app. If not, I'll have to keep using version 7 or find a new password manager.
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The Windows version went from 80MB of RAM use between two processes in version 7 to 500MB between 4 processes in version 8. The number of processes doesn't matter, it just meant I had to hit the plus button in Calculator a few extra times.
My laptop has 8GB of RAM that cannot be upgraded. I've been shopping for a new one, and it seems like 8GB is still the base configuration, even on $1,000CAD+ laptops including Apple Silicon Macs! I do not use Chrome or new Edge because of their insane RAM usage, to point where these vendors had to add tab suspension just to keep memory bloat under control. Add it on to an app like Corsair iCue for my keyboard, which has a ridiculous 1GB+ install and 700MB of RAM usage just so my keyboard can show pretty colours when I type. At least the only thing I lose if I close iCue is the macro keys.
It seems like developers do not care about making slim apps anymore. Leave all these apps to run at startup and you're idling at over 4 or 5GB of RAM out of 8 already taken. Turn on a browser, and now you've got 95% RAM usage, memory compression, and page file use. $deityofchoicehere help you if you don't have an SSD either.
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Adding to the chorus here: I've been using 1Password for...well, let's see.
I suggest using 1Password to every client who asks, and have done so for years. Every time they ask if it's good, I respond with "well, I've been using it for over a decade, and I use it dozens of times a day."Through the switch to subscriptions, UI/UX changes, etc... I knew that the changes were, ultimately, a net positive for the end user. I know it's Early Access, but immediately upon launching it, this release felt...off. UI not making sense in the context of macOS, shortcuts that have worked for years with no issues, and so on. I didn't realize that the team had switched to Electron until reading it here, but it makes sense - as others have said, Electron rarely feels as good as a native app, and for an app like 1Password that is supposed to quickly fill in your passwords and then disappear, any friction is unwelcome.
Please consider going back to a native macOS app.
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Not that this adds anything to the discussion, but just want to voice my concern as a loyal user since I cannot even remember when. I pushed very hard for my company to adopt 1Password and now I feel like I'm going to be stuck using a sub-par tool in my workflow now that it's in place and a company mandate. I also adopted 1Password for families as an early adopter and once that comes up for renewal next year I will be thinking very seriously about alternatives. Only reason I'm not canceling the renewal now is to see how you respond to the very significant concern your customers have about this transition in the hopes that something changes between now and April next year.
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Mixed feelings here. I'll gladly take the new Electron+Rust implementation for Windows over the previous .NET one, but that is primarily because the .NET one's performance was terrible and the new one is pretty snappy. I do not care too much about UX on Windows since things are all over the place there anyway, so Electron might be fine.
On macOS it is a whole different story. The great thing about macOS is how integrated and lightweight everything is, and 1Password 7 was a prime example. 1Password 8 however is no longer an integrated part of the platform and leaves a bad taste, not to mention 4%-5% of my RAM is taken up permanently. I would no longer recommend it to friends in its current state.
I'll evaluate 1Password 8 for a few more weeks, but I already see myself rolling back to version 7 :-(. I hope that version 7 remains to be an alternative even if 8 goes public as-is.
Fwiw, I find the marketing where version 8 is primarily presented as Rust-based and therefore "native" somewhat disheartening. It's the UI that matters -- a core can be built in pretty much any language after all.
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If you would like to see why 1Password 8 is not your standard, out-of-the-box Electron/NodeJS/web app, please take a look at this presentation at NorthSec security conference this year. I think it would explain a lot about how we approached things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=5110&v=_P6qI4ahBVk&feature=youtu.be
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@roustem can you please respond to my post where I tagged you in, showing the new web browser extension uses >240 mb of memory, compared with the sub 20 mb on the old extension? How was this every considered an acceptable way forward?
Please don't take my frustration personally (I'm sure you won't) I love 1P and I feel like the 1P8 and the extensions as a bit of a betrayal, given I spent so much time advocating for friends and family to move to 1P - I am going to look like a goose now, and I am honestly embarrassed.
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They started it on the Mac and have finally succeeded in killing it on the Mac. Enjoy all your VC money and corporate customers, and say goodbye to your Mac ones.
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@shepstl I hear what you are saying. I agree a lot of users are unhappy because Electron (often deservingly) gets a bad rap. Did you watch the video, though? Did you try the new app?
The discussion has to go both ways – you can't just repeatedly tell us how unhappy you are without considering what we tell you as well.
And if I can't convince you many one of the Apple engineers will:
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Dang, this early access version is slow and clunky. And what's with the absence of Touch ID in the browser? This is a huge step down from 1Password 7, at least at this early stage. I'm downgrading and will wait for the release to see if things improve substantially. If not, then will look at other options.
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