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v8 Ability to reorder/arrange fields

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  • EnerJiEnerJi
    Community Member

    I'm not sure if I weighed in on this thread, so please add a plus one for me as well.

    This feature, along with Quick Access limitations that I've mentioned recently in other threads, are the remaining issues stopping me from moving to v8.

  • Joshua_agJoshua_ag

    Team Member

    Hi @aloksharma & @Tertius3,

    Thanks so much for the follow up and sharing your experiences. I am sorry for the inconvenience of needing to re-install 1Password 7 just to re-order fields in your items.

    We are tracking this internally and while I can't make promises the issue is still open, indicating that the team still has work to do on it. I have additionally brought this topic up again internally to reminding the team of your experiences.

  • SpinalNeon9446SpinalNeon9446
    Community Member

    +1 Add me to the chorus requesting the restoration of drag & drop field reordering, and adding the feature to reorder entire sections.

  • Jack.P_1PJack.P_1P

    Team Member

    Hey @EnerJi and @SpinalNeon9446:

    Thanks for your feedback here! I've added both of your input to our tracker on this. :smile:

    Jack

  • SirSpideySirSpidey Junior Member
    Community Member

    +1 for another expected feature that disappeared in v8

  • BenBen AWS Team

    Team Member

    Thanks, @SirSpidey. :)

    Ben

  • SirSpideySirSpidey Junior Member
    Community Member

    Thanks @Ben. As I'm thinking about again, here's a use case that I find important. Open and Fill uses the first website listed. Sometimes 1P puts in an initial website that is useful in general but not useful for Open and Fill.

    Or, as a user story: As a 1Password user of logins I want to be able to put the most important website at the top of the list so that I can use "Open and Fill" and don't have to delete and re-create websites just to keep them all.

  • FredericCFredericC
    Community Member

    I'm honestly quite scarred by this kind of regressions. 1password8 with the move to electron/rust was supposed to be an element that might help the company to make development faster… and this kind of features is missing since half a year now… There have been some quick fixes at the beginning for the most obvious problems, but now there is multiple elements I still miss from previous version that didn't moved at all that I'm scared it will be done only in many years. I just hope I'm wrong :(

  • PeterG_1PPeterG_1P

    Team Member

    I'm sorry to hear this, @Frederic.C. We're making improvements to existing features, adding new ones, and generally building out 1Password 8 as quickly as we can (and we did a lot in the past year - but we know we have further to go). I'll hope to have more for you on this soon, but unfortunately can't share when a given feature might be ready pre-release. I hope you'll stick with us as we keep iterating!

  • cortigcortig Senior Member
    Community Member
    edited February 2022

    I hate to be piling on @PeterG_1P, but I have to agree with “@Frederic.C".
    I keep on using and testing 1Password 8 because despite everything, I keep on having high hopes, but right now, the new version still feels to me like a significant regression over 1Password 7 to me:
    The user interface got a refresher, but feature (and layout) -wise, but at this point, there is nothing in 1Password 8 Like better than in 1Password 7.
    And there are still too many features that haven’t made it to 1Password 8 (re-order fields, custom icons, some shortcuts like Reveal Password, local vaults…), which makes the migration a subpar experience at this point.
    You also advertise faster speed (which never really was an issue for me in 1password 7), but the integration in Safari sure does not feel faster (I know, issues with Safari 15 etc…).

    I know you did a lot and it was not an easy task. I know you see this as a long term investment that will eventually pay off, for from a user standpoint, it’s not an easy sell. Hopefully, it’ll all get better soon, but it’s a rough transition for us.
    I have a perpetual license for 1Password 7 (and moved to the subscription because I wanted to love 1Password 8), but again, at this point, I can’t find anything that would justify getting a perpetual license for v8 if it existed (which it doesn’t… and that’s one more thing that doesn’t make me very happy).

  • cortigcortig Senior Member
    Community Member
    edited February 2022

    I hate to be piling on @PeterG_1P, but I have to agree with "@Frederic.C”.
    I keep on using and testing 1Password 8 because I still have high hopes that it will get better, but right now, the new version still feels to me like a significant regression over 1Password 7:
    The user interface got a refresher, but feature (and layout) -wise, there is nothing yet in 1Password 8 I like better than in 1Password 7.
    And there are still too many features that haven’t made it to 1Password 8 (re-order fields, custom icons, some shortcuts like Reveal Password, local vaults…), which makes the migration a subpar experience for me at this point.
    You even advertise faster speed in the new version (which has never really been an issue for me in 1password 7), but the integration in Safari sure does not feel faster (I know, issues with Safari 15 etc…).

    I know you did a lot and it was not an easy task. I know you see this as a long term investment that will eventually pay off, but for from a user standpoint, it’s not an easy sell. Hopefully, it’ll all get better soon, but it’s a rough transition for us.

    I have a perpetual license for v7 and migrated to the subscription to be able to test v8, but if you had a perpetual license for v8, I would not upgrade at this point (and you don’t anyway :-> and it’s yet another point of friction for me by the way).

    Corentin

  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Corentin. It's good to hear where 1Password 8 isn't meeting your expectations so we can improve.

    You mentioned re-order fields, custom icons, some shortcuts like Reveal Password, and local vaults so I'd like to talk to those specifically.

    Reordering of fields is something we deliberately left out of 1Password 8 during the design process as we were hoping to simplify things. I was hopeful that we could win with a "less is more" approach but I find myself missing this feature as much as you are. I suspect we'll be adding it back as we're not alone here and this has become one of our most requested features in version 8.

    Custom icons should be available now. They weren't in the initial launch but we added them back in September and I use them in screenshots all the time.

    All existing custom icons in your items should appear automatically. To add a new custom icon, you can click the dropdown arrow on the icon while in edit mode, as shown here:

    Reveal password by simply pressing the Option key is a neat feature and we used to always do that in previous versions as a easy way to see the password. In fact it was too easy as you could reveal your password while using an unrelated keyboard shortcut, which was quite problematic while screen sharing or in a public setting. So we changed it in 1Password 8 to be a preference this is disabled by default. You can enable it in Preferences > Security.

    As for local vaults I'm not going to sugar coat it: local vaults as they existed in earlier versions will not be coming to 1Password 8. The new approach has too many advantages to consider going back to the old way. I wrote about this at length in the What is the future of local/standalone vaults? thread and there's a self-hosting survey there that might suit your fancy. Please check out my post there for the full story.

    I hope that helps shed some light on our thought process and hopefully the new Reveal Password preference and Custom icons will get you closer to being in a good place with 1Password 8. I'm sorry the transition has been rough for you and I'm thankful you took the time to get through it. 🙏

    Take care and please let me know if there's anything else I can help with.

    ++dave;
    1Password Founder

  • EnerJiEnerJi
    Community Member

    Custom icons should be available now. They weren't in the initial launch but we added them back in September and I use them in screenshots all the time.

    Any chance drag and drop of icons will be coming back? Glad to hear field re-ordering is (likely) coming back. Based on what I read on these forums, the biggest missing feature in my 1PW8 experience that I don't see under discussion/consideration is the lack of 1PW Mini, or specifically that Quick Access lacks certain features from 1PW Mini that I would miss dearly. My top features:

    I want to see my item details in Quick Access without having to open each one (just like Spotlight auto-previews every highlighted item), and I want the ability for Quick Access to auto-filter logins based on the currently focused application (based on an "app://" link saved in the login item).

  • Tertius3Tertius3
    Community Member

    @dteare

    Reordering of fields is something we deliberately left out of 1Password 8 during the design process as we were hoping to simplify things. I was hopeful that we could win with a "less is more" approach

    You don't even plan to implement that function? Hard to believe your perception of the app is so different to mine. I feel it's so natural and so essential to reorder, I simply thought this were just not finished but being worked on. If you offer the function to add custom fields
    and sections, it's obligatory the user can choose where to add these as well. You cannot offer one without the other. Without that, it's a half baked solution, a real flaw in the app.
    And reordering is no intrusive feature, so the "less is more" isn't exactly an argument.
    And it's already partly implemented, because you already use the field ordering info created by the v7 client. It's not completely undesigned.

  • PeterG_1PPeterG_1P

    Team Member

    Hi @Tertius3 👋 I wasn't involved in the initial design decisions of 1Password 8, but just to clarify about your question - we do have an open internal issue regarding the ability to re-order fields. That means this feature certainly isn't off the table, and as @dteare mentioned we see the value in it ourselves. And we do listen to your feedback, too!

  • cortigcortig Senior Member
    Community Member

    @dteare thanks a million for this detailed reply. Much appreciated!

    I sure am glad to know Reveal password is back. Very obviously the new option had escaped me…
    The custom icons is a welcome return as well (although I didn't realize it was possible again since Iv'e always used drag and drop for this customization and at this point we can only use the popup menu the icon).

    I hope that reordering fields will eventually be reimplemented. I'm not sure how its suppression simplifies the app so much. There wasn't much clutter igniting the possibility of drag and dropping field to rearrange them.

    Now… if you could find a solution to speed things up with 1Password in Safari in Monterey… I might revisit my negative opinion of the new version (again — I really want to love the new version!!). Right now, if 1Password is connected to the browser, getting the extension to authenticate me takes forever and requires wayyy too many clicks… I understand Safari is not cooperating in the way you'd like, but it's really not a great experience.

  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member
    edited February 2022

    @EnerJi: There’s always hope. 🙂 I’m quite certain we’ll enable images to be dropped on the item’s icon directly without needing to do the whole dance of entering edit mode and selecting the Choose new icon menu. I’d also like any drops on the item section (except the icon) to automatically add an attachment to the item.

    Regarding the 1Password mini approach versus the new Quick Access approach, there’s been some discussions in these forums already. It’s certainly a new approach and design and it does take some getting used to.

    I mostly use Quick Access for Go&Fill but when I go looking for an item’s details sometimes I do stammer a bit, usually when I'm in "mouse mode". I often switch between the mouse and keyboard and I do find myself needing to think more than I’d like when I use the mouse. When my mind is in keyboard mode though I find the ⌘O hotkey very natural to use and I enjoy navigating with the arrow keys.

    As for detecting the currently focused application, Quick Access tries to do exactly that. Here's how things look for me when opening Quick Access while Slack is in the foreground.

    Is this not working for you or did I perhaps misunderstand your question?

    @Tertius3: I'm not sure if I did a poor job explaining things but my words directly following your quote were meant to convey that there's plenty of flexibility in this area and it's something we're actively considering:

    but I find myself missing this feature as much as you are. I suspect we'll be adding it back as we're not alone here and this has become one of our most requested features in version 8.

    I know it's easy to always want more but please keep in mind that 1Password 8 was a complete rewrite from the ground up. And not only that, it was done so in new languages with new tooling. 1Password 7 was a great app and it took us many years to get it to that level of functionality. It's a big lift to bring forward so many years of features forward and I like to constantly question each feature to see if it's truly needed. Reordering item fields is something I wanted to experiment with to see if we can live without. I believe the results from this experiment are in and I personally feel we should reconsider. At the same time, we have a lot of plates in the air at the moment and I want the team to be able to complete their active projects before revisiting this. We're never "finished". 🙂

    @cortig: You're very welcome. I'm glad you've found the Reveal Password preference and our current custom icon support. I agree that allowing images to be dropped directly on the item icon would be a nice addition. We have some really nice drag and drop support throughout the app already but can certainly push it further.

    As for 1Password for Safari and the slowness there, it's very high on our priority list. There's an entirely new web extension framework that we're using and while it's very nice in many ways, there are edge cases that have been challenging. I know our browser team is actively working on this I hope we'll see improvements here soon.

    I hope that helps. Take care,

    ++dave;
    1Password Founder

  • Tertius3Tertius3
    Community Member

    @dteare If you say, you're activiely considering something, it can mean anything from "Might be we bring it up at the next design session in May that will define the roadmap for 2024 with a 2025 release" to "a dev is currently working on the first working demo".

    In the past I learnt that when dealing with software developing companies, the only thing I can rely on is what I can currently use in the currently available app. Either it's there and I can use it, or it's not there and I cannot use it.

    I see the missing field reordering was mentioned immediately after public early access last year, and it neither was implemented since then (but other things were), nor it was officially announced to be implemented, so I assume it will not get implemented in the foreseeable future. Which means it's not there, so I call it a missing feature, and one I consider a serious flaw and a downside in your otherwise very good app. It's the only way to say: "come on, just do it!".

    In the meantime, I will reinstall v7 from time to time to reorder my new custom fields and hate it.

  • dtearedteare Agile Founder

    Team Member

    You're right @Tertius3, this hasn't bubbled up on our priority list yet and I'm sorry that it's causing you pain. It's something we'd like to revisit when we have a chance.

    As you say we launched the first early access on August 11th of last year. It feels like a long time but let's put some numbers to it. Wolframalpha reports that the first release was 127 weekdays ago (business days if you prefer) and in that time the 1Password for Mac beta changelog has grown to include 22 new betas with over 400 improvements. We can argue about the priority of individual changes but the point is there's a lot going on. The team is averaging about 4 improvements a day and I feel they're doing great. The last thing I want to do is disturb the team with changing directions on this mid-stream. We made a call on the design over a year ago and we moved forward. I agree with you we should iterate here and when we get a chance we'll start a small project to revisit this and push it through.

    Again, I am sorry that I'm causing you more work and frustration. My discussions in this thread were never meant to be an excuse or otherwise. I simply thought sharing some of the behind the scenes details could help.

    Peace. ✌️

    ++dave;
    1Password Founder

  • DrRZDrRZ
    Community Member

    Reordering item fields is something I wanted to experiment with to see if we can live without. I believe the results from this experiment are in and I personally feel we should reconsider. At the same time, we have a lot of plates in the air at the moment and I want the team to be able to complete their active projects before revisiting this.

    This suggests that no one is currently working on this and that it's not a priority. In fact to say you will (eventually) revisit the idea means there hasn't even been a decision made to actually add the feature in the future. That's disappointing to learn. (Yes, I'm trying to nudge you towards a commitment.)

    As for detecting the currently focused application, Quick Access tries to do exactly that. Here's how things look for me when opening Quick Access while Slack is in the foreground.

    How does 1Password determine which entries belong to which application? I'm not getting this behaviour.

  • Tertius3Tertius3
    Community Member
    edited February 2022

    @dteare

    I simply thought sharing some of the behind the scenes details could help.

    I recognized and appreciate this. I also appreciate you in person take part in this thread with no marketing blah. This is exceptional. Usually, only marketing and support visit their product forum. And as someone who works in an IT job like you, I appreciate that you are not the boss who calls each day a different thing as priority of the day. However, in my role as customer I reserve the right to tell about issues I have with the product. I represent someone from the outside view.

  • AG_TravisAG_Travis

    Team Member
    edited February 2022

    Heyo @DrRZ

    Hope you're well! For your question:

    "How does 1Password determine which entries belong to which application? I'm not getting this behavior."

    Quick Access leverages a similar system as OP Mini did on Mac. We have a matrix along with synonyms for URLs to match up your logins with currently open apps on your desktop. This feature was originally only on Mac, but we've also brought it to other platforms where we did not initially believe it to be possible like Windows. The feature is heavily reliant on desktop apps providing consistent window names in order to be processed in our matrix. That consistency occurs frequently on Mac, but Windows lacks much of that consistency. This approach, as you can imagine, requires a lot of upkeep to stay accurate. In the near future - hopefully well within the next 12 months - we're going to add an additional layer for item suggestions in Quick Access. We'll be allowing users to directly link applications to their items to get more accurate suggestions. Furthermore, we're looking into ways to automate this process (like we do on Android today) where when an item in Quick Access is used in conjunction with an app, they are linked together. This does create a "suggestion ramp up" period, but over time we believe it'll be the best way to get you accurate, consistent suggestions through Quick Access.

    Best regards,

    Travis
    1Password Product Manager - Core & B2C

  • EnerJiEnerJi
    Community Member
    edited February 2022

    @dteare

    Really appreciate the reply. Regarding this part of your comment:

    As for detecting the currently focused application, Quick Access tries to do exactly that. Here's how things look for me when opening Quick Access while Slack is in the foreground.
    Is this not working for you or did I perhaps misunderstand your question?

    I coincidentally came across a Reddit comment (not mine) which perfectly encapsulates my issue:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/1Password/comments/sm8jex/-/hvvw768

    I want the old behaviour where Cmd+\ worked in other applications besides browsers, and I could get it to suggest the correct password for me.

    I have some passwords that I use in Terminal, so I set one of the website fields to app://com.apple.terminal, and 1Password 7 was able to show me these when I was within Terminal. Similarly, for Cisco VPN, I was able to add app://com.cisco.anyconnect.gui and it would bring up my password for my work's VPN.

    1P8 beta has broken this behaviour, and now especially for the VPN, it's incredibly inconvenient to have to press Cmd+Shift+Space and search for the right password.

    Perhaps I am the one not understanding how things are supposed to work in 1pw8 Quick Access, because @AG_Travis gives me the impression in his above comment that there are improvements coming to make Quick Access work a little more like 1pw mini in this regard, but I wasn't clear whether that was specific to Windows or whether it also applies to Mac.

    I'm also not clear why it works sometimes (your Slack example) and why it doesn't work in other apps for me and for others like the above Reddit commenter, and why it works in 1pw7 Mini.

    While I'm on the subject and within my edit window, here are two short threads that I contributed to which further outline my issues with Quick Access:

    https://1password.community/discussion/126427/the-ability-to-drag-a-password-field-to-a-textbox-on-macos-versus-copy-paste

    https://1password.community/discussion/125882/quick-access-is-missing-features-from-1password-mini

  • Jack.P_1PJack.P_1P

    Team Member

    Hey @EnerJi:

    Thanks for linking that comment. The short version is as it currently stands, we're not checking against bundle IDs stored in website fields when triggering Quick Access suggestions, only website URLs which we map to bundle IDs internally. With that in mind however, I've added your feedback to an issue we have internally about allowing the same use case as with 1Password 7. Thanks for your feedback here on this!

    Jack

    ref: dev/core/core#12044

  • EnerJiEnerJi
    Community Member

    Thank you @Jack.P_1P, you summarized the issue succinctly and clearly. I have several use cases for filling passwords into apps which don't logically have an associated website and I do this daily, so I am loath to use 1pw8 for now. Hoping this will be improved in Quick Access before 1PW Mini is completely deprecated.

    I am also strongly hoping for an option to auto-preview highlighted items in Quick Access just like macOS Spotlight and 1Pw Mini does today.

    Thanks for listening!

  • Jack.P_1PJack.P_1P

    Team Member

    You're very welcome @EnerJi! Without feedback like yours, we wouldn't be here. 😀

    Jack

  • nimvionimvio
    Community Member

    I really appreciate the ability to re-arrange fields using the iOS/iPadOS app, but I have a feeling that the feature won't be present in 1Pass 8 on iOS. Truthfully, I'd like to see what I consider to be a basic feature be available on all versions/platforms of 1Pass, but I at least want one way to do it.


    1Password Version: 1Password 8.x.x Early Access
    Extension Version: 2.x.x
    OS Version: macOS 12.2.x

  • derekkcmoderekkcmo
    Community Member

    Still hoping this very basic feature is re-implemented soon! I used it frequently & would love to reorganize some new items I have added since the "upgrade" to v8.

  • William1PWilliam1P
    Community Member

    +1 definitely, this is super important. Would be majorly missed.

  • dave_dave_
    Community Member

    Please count me as one more vote to restore the ability to reorder fields within and between sections. (I had always wished sections could be reordered as well, but now I'd be happy just to get the v7 functionality back.)

    @dteare and @PeterG_1P, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to customers' comments here. I wish I'd have read some of these forum threads rather than the blog articles and release notes. Being aware of the known issues would have been nice, but I can understand a company not being eager to publicize how the new version lacks features we've found useful in the old version.

    The inability to reorder fields is annoying enough that I'm considering going back to v7, even if it means giving up dark mode and Markdown. (Would returning to v7 be as simple as reinstalling it? Should I uninstall v8 first? Any gotchas? I can't have both at the same time, can I?)

    Is there any other way to reorder fields? The web UI and Android app seem to lack this functionality. I'm thinking something like exporting, editing, and re-importing JSON might work, but manipulating secrets outside of the app seems like a bad idea.

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